Alphabetic search in MM ?

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Expand view Topic review: Alphabetic search in MM ?

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:20 am

Ludek, sounds good. Thanks.

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Ludek » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:35 am

Well, I agree that the tooltips are not well readable in the "Material Design" like skins. To be improved in the next builds.
They are done according the Material Design specs, see: https://material.io/design/components/t ... .html#spec

EDIT: It seems that the issue was that they should have font "Regular" and not "Roboto", will be fixed in 2180

As for the extra window in the Monkey Groove skin, I see the same, added as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15719

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:17 am

Ludek wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:20 am
i.e. I still don't see any *Abc* (and I don't think that it is related to my reading skills)
OK, while I am not yet ready to award you Best Reading skills, you do win the Best Vision prize :o ... (a fairly low bar btw, as you would realise if you knew anything about my situation :) )

When I switched across to the Monkey Groove skin I can read it a bit clearer, although the low opacity white on orange of Material Design (Dark) still defeats me. ... The rest of the UI with that skin causes me no difficulty. Just the shaded tool tips.

I looked at representative s/w from Microsoft, Google, Mozilla, and MM4 ... all of them have much better tool tips, than MM5, for people with low vision (see below). There is probably a Best Practice guideline somewhere describing the need for this .... something you could change?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s95c1xjyt4ev0 ... n.png?dl=0

btw the Monkey Groove skin in 2179 also opens up a white screen which sits over the top of MM5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2q9gs93u2qjy ... t.png?dl=0

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Ludek » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:20 am

OK, so what does the 3rd item in that tooltip list say?

:D I have often suspected the patchy nature of your speed reading skills.
The 3rd item in that tooltip list says:
"Abc": finds whole words Abc (exact match)
i.e. I still don't see any *Abc* (and I don't think that it is related to my reading skills)

@Davo:
Don't worry, I read this whole topic carefully. As I already wrote, all the items are being considered and some are going to be implemented.

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:24 pm

Ludek wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:20 pm
I don't see why *Abc* should work currently, it has never worked and it is not listed in the tooltip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9qccjg48i9j1 ... s.png?dl=0
OK, so what does the 3rd item in that tooltip list say?

:D I have often suspected the patchy nature of your speed reading skills.

and I know what you are thinking ... "I have a lot of reading to do ... and reading things doesn't get bugs fixed ... and some people write too much" :)


Ludek wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:20 pm
some of them does not make much sense (like Ctrl+Shirt+F for contextual search)
It might not be important, nor elegant, but it makes sense (to me)

The idea was this:
  • you said that there was concern that the just_type_for a _contextual_search behaviour can be hard to discover
  • to help address this I suggested a tool tip for the looking glass saying something like "Global (whole database) search ... nb. use Ctrl+Shift+F for contextual search"
  • this is shorter, and therefore better, than a tooltip saying "Global (whole database) search ... nb. for a contextual search, click somewhere on the grid or list, without selecting a specific cell, and then just use the keyboard ... a contextual search box will open for you"

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Davo » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:36 pm

@Ludek
I didn't notice a specific response from you on this issue so i'm not sure if its included in your list of things to consider.
Perhaps there is a technical reason for having to search this way but logically i don't believe that changing a View should require a different search statement. After all, the Collection & the Node have'nt changed. So having performed the search I just want to view the result in different formats (Views). Similar to calculating data in a spreadsheet then viewing the results as a Pie, Column, Line or Bar chart

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Ludek » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:20 pm

ok, your suggestions and feature requests are being evaluated.
Some of them makes sense (and will be implemented), some of them does not make much sense (like Ctrl+Shirt+F for contextual search)
2. problem with the search syntax ... *Abc* doesn't work ... ie. *beefheart* doesn't find Captain Beefheart ... neither does *Beefheart*
I don't see why *Abc* should work currently, it has never worked and it is not listed in the tooltip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9qccjg48i9j1 ... s.png?dl=0

To find Captain Beefheart you can write just Beefheart (without the stars).
If anything, then the *Abc* is mostly used as infix syntax AFAIK.
i.e. I would expect that *bc* finds abcd (as bc is word infix).

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:48 am

Ludek wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:13 am
So I totally don't understand why MM5 shouldn't be an improvement against MM4 ??
Yes sorry, it probably is an an improvement based upon your examples. I had never used MM4 scrolling exactly like that.

I should have expressed it differently. .... I initially saw the removal of the sub nodes in the media tree, and some of the new searching|filters options in MM4, as a welcome freedom from having to expand the MM4 Media Tree column, and then muck about with a very very long Media Tree sub node index list.

I still think that current MM5 is still a bit nobbled in the current implementation ... ie. I have to resort the grid|list, or I have to bring the Media Tree back, and navigate to a different index, and lose my position .... it would be better to just give you a scroll start string in the form "fieldname:xxx" .... it would even be OK if threw up a error message if I wanted to scroll on a column which didn't have an index.

And I think that it is disappoint that the sort syntax isn't available everywhere ... eg. maybe I am here https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jdfw1m2cr2b7 ... x.png?dl=0
and I want to search on something like "album:moon" ... and you would show me just the albumartists having and album with "moon" in their title. ... maybe a silly example, but you know what I mean.

I think MM5 is harder to learn and enjoy if there are too many differences between the modes and views ... ie. I saw I sort sequence before ... why can't I use it now?? where is it???

-------

Some other related feedback.
Ludek_in_Mantis wrote: Suggestions to improve: show the drop down arrow also in the global search context too.
i.e. whenever the search bar is displayed then the magnifying glass icon on the right would disappear and there would be the dropdown arrow next to the search bar in _all_ modes.
I don't understand why you would do the bolded bit

I don't think that will help ... the looking glass reminds us that this is a search control .... why make it disappear? ... it would be better to open the entry field (as you do now), and insert the drop down menu control between the entry control and the lokking glass IMO

Ludek_in_Mantis wrote: - it would also include links to 'Options' and 'Advanced search'
btw Advanced Search facility is a bit confusing ATM. ... It is just the Funnel filter facility by another name isn't it?

If I open the funnel, and then want to close it when I am done, I need to click the funnel again ... ie. the Esc key does not work here

If I go into "Advanced Search", via your current looking glass menu option, I need to close via the Esc key

It would good if the Esc key worked in both situations, and if there was also a "x" closing control at the top right of those panels for people who don't know to try the Esc key.

Ludek wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:50 am
As for the Barry's feedback re the clearness which search mode is being applied.
I re-opened #15077 and summarized it as item G) : https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 077#c53554
Item "G" does not seem to cover all of my feedback ... this is a long thread, with long posts ... you read, and rejected the following points? ... or you didn't see them?

1. The Edit menu has just two "search" items; Search and Advanced Search. ... so it looks, to a menu-focus user, that these are all the search facilities that have been implemented in MM5

Suggestion: You should have three menu items:
"Contextual Search: search just within your current Media Tree node (Ctrl+Shirt+F)"
"Global Search: search the whole MM database (Ctrl+F)"
"Advanced Search.. : design|use complex search criteria"

The Ctrl+Shift+F accelerator is suggested not only to be consistent with the other menu item ... but is suggested to be an addition to the just_start_typing behaviour, because being short, it is easy to describe in a hover tool top ... ie. a hover tool tip for the rhs looking glass, which is the search related icon that is always visible in the GUI

2. problem with the search syntax ... *Abc* doesn't work ... ie. *beefheart* doesn't find Captain Beefheart ... neither does *Beefheart*

Another comment about your tool tip describing the sort syntax ... why include capitals in your examples in situations where they are no meaningful? ... ie. the top example ... it looks like I have use capitals where you indicated ... ie. requiring Beefheart instead of beefheart
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9qccjg48i9j1 ... s.png?dl=0

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Ludek » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:13 am

Further to this, it seems a pity that the new MM5 scroll facility has been nobbled.

In MM4 all we had was a simple scroll, where we were scrolling a Media Tree single-tag index, and we could see the index ... in MM5, we may be scrolling in a list or grid, where the index being scrolled is less obvious, and the column or the column for the tag may not even be displayed.
In MM4 the situation was pretty similar, if you were in [Music > Artists] and focused the list-view then it scrolled to the index of the first sort column (which was not obvious at all in MM4). In MM5 we at least shows "phrase not found within "Album Artist" column".

And if you selected and expanded [Music > Artists] node in MM4 then the scroll index was the artist (within media tree), this is similar to MM5 when if you are in
[Music > Artists] (Grid view) then the artist index is being scrolled.

In addition in MM4 the phrase that you typed was not visible at all, while in MM5 there is the search bar with the phrase entered and the [ˇ][^] buttons to go to the next/previous phrase without a need to type it again (unlike in MM4).

So I totally don't understand why MM5 shouldn't be an improvement against MM4 ??


Since the scroll index is not obvious to the user, why not allow a free form scroll, where the user can explicitly override the default tag to be scrolled, by using the syntax of "fieldname:A" that you implemented elsewhere?
Yes, this could be an improvement, but probably also hard to realize (and I doubt that it would make things clearer).
Nevertheless added as item H) here: https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 077#c53707

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:53 am

Davo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:40 pm
i don't believe that changing a View should require a different search statement. After all, the Collection & the Node have'nt changed. So having performed the search I just want to view the result in different formats (Views). Similar to calculating data in a spreadsheet then viewing the results as a Pie, Column, Line or Bar chart
Further to this, it seems a pity that the new MM5 scroll facility has been nobbled.

In MM4 all we had was a simple scroll, where we were scrolling a Media Tree single-tag index, and we could see the index ... in MM5, we may be scrolling in a list or grid, where the index being scrolled is less obvious, and the column or the column for the tag may not even be displayed.

Since the scroll index is not obvious to the user, why not allow a free form scroll, where the user can explicitly override the default tag to be scrolled, by using the syntax of "fieldname:A" that you implemented elsewhere?

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Davo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:40 pm

Hi Ludek
Item 1 - re magnifying glass, i probably could have worded that better. I was just pointing out that until recently i didn't realise you could right click the magnifying glass to get to the Options window.

Re all the other search issues mentioned I confirm that I am doing a Contextual search. At the time i raised these issues i didn't realize that a View would affect the search syntax. ie
'composer:rach' can be used on "track level", i.e. in "List View" & "Album & Tracks" you specifies (by using 'composer:rach' ) that you are searching composer field of the track entities. But in the grid view (like [Music > Artists]) it supposed that you want to search withing artist tag. To search for composer in the grid view you can go to [Music > Composer] and type "rach" there.
Perhaps there is a technical reason for having to search this way but logically i don't believe that changing a View should require a different search statement. After all, the Collection & the Node have'nt changed. So having performed the search I just want to view the result in different formats (Views). Similar to calculating data in a spreadsheet then viewing the results as a Pie, Column, Line or Bar chart

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Ludek » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:50 am

As for the Barry's feedback re the clearness which search mode is being applied.
I re-opened #15077 and summarized it as item G) : https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 077#c53554


1. For global search you can toggle between whole word or partial as an option when you right click the magnifying glass.
I don't see this, in my case it always searches beginning of the words until I change it in Options > Search: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtj9r1ouqo6kr ... 4.png?dl=0


2. In the Grid View when i search at a node, say Composer using a partial word, say Beet for Beethoven it returns Beethoven & Ludwig Van Beethoven & Beethoven, Luwig Van. which is what i want; This is also useful where Composers names have different spellings, eg, Rachmaninov or Rachmaninoff. So 'rach' will find both.
Unfortunately when i switch to Album & Tracks view i lose the focus on Composer and the same search returns every instance of 'rach' eg the artist 'Rachel Barton'

Based on this i think implementing the "automatic" Alphabetic search function will likely only complicate & confuse things further. For my purposes the search as described at Item 2 above will suffice. Although it is limiting to be constrained to the Grid View
'composer:rach' can be used on "track level", i.e. in "List View" & "Album & Tracks" you specifies (by using 'composer:rach' ) that you are searching composer field of the track entities. But in the grid view (like [Music > Artists]) it supposed that you want to search withing artist tag. To search for composer in the grid view you can go to [Music > Composer] and type "rach" there.

As for the implementing the "automatic" Alphabetic search function: note that this has been implemented only for the "scroll to matches" mode, i.e. if you want to scroll an item in the large list of composers, so that typing "ra" brings you to the first composer item starting with "ra"

Also i had assumed that if i selected say, My Classical Collection and then the Composer node then any search i typed would be on that node but that is clearly not the case.
Just testing, and it is the case for me here (supposing that you are doing the contextual search -- typing in the view) and not the global search (Ctrl+F), can you confirm?

The problem at the moment is if i'm looking for the composer Rachmaninov & i type rach i get very few results.
I don't see this, can you elaborate where you typed 'rach' and in which mode? Global (Ctrl+F) or contextual?

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Davo » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:42 pm

@Ludek
After reviewing the preceeding discussions & playing around more with the search options, this is my current understanding :-

1. For global search you can toggle between whole word or partial as an option when you right click the magnifying glass.

2. In the Grid View when i search at a node, say Composer using a partial word, say Beet for Beethoven it returns Beethoven & Ludwig Van Beethoven & Beethoven, Luwig Van. which is what i want; This is also useful where Composers names have different spellings, eg, Rachmaninov or Rachmaninoff. So 'rach' will find both.
Unfortunately when i switch to Album & Tracks view i lose the focus on Composer and the same search returns every instance of 'rach' eg the artist 'Rachel Barton'

Based on this i think implementing the "automatic" Alphabetic search function will likely only complicate & confuse things further. For my purposes the search as described at Item 2 above will suffice. Although it is limiting to be constrained to the Grid View

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:25 am

Davo wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:38 pm
The problem at the moment is if i'm looking for the composer Rachmaninov & i type rach i get very few results. it seems the only way is to type the tag name & composer name ie 'composer:rachmaninov' . & if i type 'composer:rach' i get nothing because it's a whole word search.
Hi David,

I think that the only "whole word" search that is offered, is if you used the syntax *rachmaninov* .... ps. Ludek: I just tested it, and it is broken

Otherwise, what they have is "every word", not "whole word" ... so in a every word search, rach would find "Sergei Rachmaninov" as well as "Rachmaninov, Sergei", because it looked at all words.

The new thing implemented by Ludek would only scroll to "Rachmaninov, Sergei", as it just looks at the front of the tag, as per your request.


I can get scroll working OK with a search of "composer:rach"
[UPDATE] ... sorry David, "composer:rach" does not work, but rach does ... to see why, read the following ... ps. Ludek: syntax not implemented in scroll mode? ... seems like a thing that should be fixed .. ?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c9mycxkwk1tjo ... 1.png?dl=0

Do you understand that if you are using the scroll mode of search, that the display needs to be sorted by the tag that you are scrolling?

ie. if your display is sorted by Artist, then only the artist tag is searched for the next scroll-to target.

So in my illustration above I had it sorted by Composer.

It does seem a PIA limitation.

I think that where you explicitly designated a tag (like "composer:rach"), then you would think that they would scroll via that tag, regardless of display sort sequence. ... maybe it something that can be fixed? ... the meantime, the workaround is to re-sort your display.


Or are you taking about Grid view, where the sort syntax doesn't seem to have been implemented? ... like this
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2b72z7kjbvjpe ... 2.png?dl=0

Earth to Ludek: you keep omitting to answer this query|bug, asked 5 times now in this thread?

See bottom of this post: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 23#p458823

Re: Alphabetic search in MM ?

by Barry4679 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:27 am

A couple of other thoughts.

Can you configure the backgroup of the entry widget that you are using? ... Is something like this possible?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2f9i4mozg8ypi ... d.png?dl=0


and
Barry4679 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:02 am
  • tooltip: the tool bar has some tooltips (eg. hover over the backbar, the funnel, the view icon, etc ... they all have a tooltip) ... but the most complex icon (the magnifying glass) has nothing ?! ... it should be something like "global (whole db) search ... ps. just use your keyboard to do a contextual search."[/list]
maybe a better tooltip would be "global (whole database) search ... nb. shift+click this icon for a contextual search"

ie. a shift+click of rhs magnifying glass, or ctrl+shift+F keys, opens the contextual search entry control, next to the breadcrumbs as you have now.

and leave any attempt to explain the type-into-the-grid behaviour to the "tips" section of the search drop down menu, as previously suggested?

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