Okay Experts: I got 3

Get answers about using the current release of MediaMonkey for Windows.

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nightrocket
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Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:50 pm

Here we go...

1) Even we cross-fade turned off, I've got tracks - particularly separate audiobook tracks - playing about 5 to 10 seconds into the track when in "Continuous" mode. What up? What have I done to deserve this?? ;)

2) I ripped a bunch of cds via Media Monkey. I enabled both volume analysis and volume leveling. Everything I recorded is now at a lower volume than everything else. How do I avoid this next time and, more importantly, how do I currently bring everything up to the same volume level?

3) On several occasions, I've tried to download plug-ins (visualizations, audio enhancement) that are supposed to be compatible with Media Monkey through its compatibility with Winamp 2. However, when I try to download and install, it searches for Winamp 2, doesn't locate it, and won't let me download it; even onto my desktop to then move into the Media Mokey plug-ins folder manually. Whatsitallabout? I've even tried downloading Winamp 2 just so that it had something to recognize but that hasn't worked well either.

I love my Media Monkey program but there are this little quirks that seem to constantly dog it. Moreover, as much as it allows the user to customize and get really detailed, it seems to require a fairly broad knowledge base in order to utilize and understand it. What's the consensus on this? Is there a Media Mokey for Dummies book out there?

Thanks for reading. And to whoever opts to help, I appreciate it.

Peace,

- Joher
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0403825/

nohitter151
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nohitter151 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:01 am

1. I don't know what you mean here. Are you saying that tracks crossfade even when its disabled?

2. Your mistake here was using volume analysis and volume leveling. Volume analysis analyzes the track and stores a value in the database and track tag that identifies to MediaMonkey how low you should lower the volume. Volume leveling analyzes the track, then actually reencodes it at a lower volume so that the file itself is altered. So basically, if you do both of these procedures, you're going to be changing the volume double what it would normally be changed.

3. You should be able to install directly to the C:\Program Files\MediaMonkey\ folder. Inside there are fake Winamp.exe and Winamp.ini files that can trick winamp plugin installations into installing into the MM folder.

There is no 'MM for dummies', though there is an official MM support site and a user-generated Wikithat both can answer many frequently asked questions as well as some not-so frequently asked ones. Of course, the forum is also available for questions.
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rovingcowboy
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by rovingcowboy » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:14 pm

2. and 3. were answered by nohitter151.

1. i am reading that you are using large electionic book files.

my question is " do you have enough ram? "

if you have enough ram do you have your book files on a different harddrive then c drive?

if you do have it on another drive do you have your swap file on the c drive set up to be large
and do you have your background quntas to work faster then the programs.?

i think you should have the programs run slower then the background quntas. that way the swap file or ram
loading of the large files will be quicker, i think that is what is going on the file is not loading fast enough and you are getting it to repeat. :o

if not that then it might just be a corupt file? :(


8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

Lowlander
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by Lowlander » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:40 pm

2) Set the target volume for volume leveling to a higher value in the MediaMonkey options.

If you re-analyze the tracks (make sure that the MediaMonkey options are set to analyze tracks with know volume level) does the problem cure itself?
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

jimsocal
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by jimsocal » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:51 pm

nightrocket wrote: [edit]

I love my Media Monkey program but there are this little quirks that seem to constantly dog it. Moreover, as much as it allows the user to customize and get really detailed, it seems to require a fairly broad knowledge base in order to utilize and understand it. What's the consensus on this? Is there a Media Mokey for Dummies book out there?

Thanks for reading. And to whoever opts to help, I appreciate it.

Peace,

- Joher
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0403825/
I totally agree with you when you say "but there are these little quirks that seem to constantly dog it" AND that "it seems to require a fairly broad knowledge base in order to utilize it and understand it"... AND that there NEEDS to be a "Media Monkey" MANUAL in order to allow a user to not have to fumble around in the dark for weeks to utilize it and avoid problems.

Frankly, although I don't mean this in a mean way, and do not wish to step on any of the developers' egos who may frequent this place, I am about fed up with MM after using it on my 128gigs for a few weeks.

It seems every time I open it to look for an album I find a tagged album that is broken into pieces instead of displaying as one unit, I find album art missing or displaying the back instead of the front (even though I already fixed it once or twice), and tons of "Unknown" tracks even though I have ran them through Picard tagger using IDV2.3 tags. Etc etc... these are just some of the more obvious problems. I keep reading more and more accounts of people with these and similar problems, so it ain't just me.

Either an earlier MM is more fully functional, and I can switch to that, or I'm going to have to dump MM and look for something better... (Maybe there IS nothing better...?)

Again, I appreciate all the folks on this forum who apparently like MM and maybe it's really just a matter of sticking with it long enough to get through what must be a very long learning curve... It doesn't SEEM like it should be that complicated to do the things I want it to do: display albums as whole units based on ID3v2.3 (or any other!) tags; show album covers that I have included in the folders as folder.jpg and continue showing them as I have set them to show (ie; the front cover, not the back), and keep track of my files as I move them around. Hell, I don't even need THAT, I can do that manually if I have to!

Let me say that I LIKE a lot of things about MM too. I like the player, it sounds better than my other players for some reason, it seems; I like the options it has and the way it allows me to set which albums / songs to include in my library, and the many options it gives me for playback.

But basically the things that are most important: displaying all my tagged albums as complete tagged albums, and showing their art work correctly - it isn't doing such a good job of!
Using XP SerPack2 512MB RAM 2.4g Intel
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nohitter151
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nohitter151 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:38 pm

Regarding your album art problems, I would try unchecking "Scan track directories for album art" in Tools -> Options -> Library and see if that stops the problem.
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jimsocal
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by jimsocal » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:50 pm

nohitter151 wrote:Regarding your album art problems, I would try unchecking "Scan track directories for album art" in Tools -> Options -> Library and see if that stops the problem.
Will try that. Thanks.
Using XP SerPack2 512MB RAM 2.4g Intel
IPod 80GB Classic Video

drjboulder
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by drjboulder » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:47 am

jimsocal wrote: It seems every time I open it to look for an album I find a tagged album that is broken into pieces instead of displaying as one unit, I find album art missing or displaying the back instead of the front (even though I already fixed it once or twice), and tons of "Unknown" tracks even though I have ran them through Picard tagger using IDV2.3 tags. Etc etc... these are just some of the more obvious problems. I keep reading more and more accounts of people with these and similar problems, so it ain't just me.
Are these albums being tagged as the Monkey "sees" Albums?
Ie:
Same Album Title
Same Album Artist
Not, same Artist, but same "Album Artist"?
D Rock
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MediaMonkeyGoldv3.0.3.1183
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Zune Small Player Skin w/ Aqua 4 Player Mod
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RadioDJ | RadioFreeMonkey | PrettyPictures | MiniLyricsEmbedder
LyricsViewer | Lyricator | LyricsPlugin | VisualizationEmbedder | MonkeyRok
RightClickForWeb | WebSearchPanels | WebNodes | MagicNodes | FavoritesNodes
NowPlayingArtNode |AutoRateAccurate | TaggingInconsistencies
AdvancedDuplicateFind&Fix | CaseModify | PlayHistory&Stats | Etc...

nightrocket
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:21 pm

nohitter151 wrote:1. I don't know what you mean here. Are you saying that tracks crossfade even when its disabled?

2. Your mistake here was using volume analysis and volume leveling. Volume analysis analyzes the track and stores a value in the database and track tag that identifies to MediaMonkey how low you should lower the volume. Volume leveling analyzes the track, then actually reencodes it at a lower volume so that the file itself is altered. So basically, if you do both of these procedures, you're going to be changing the volume double what it would normally be changed.

3. You should be able to install directly to the C:\Program Files\MediaMonkey\ folder. Inside there are fake Winamp.exe and Winamp.ini files that can trick winamp plugin installations into installing into the MM folder.

There is no 'MM for dummies', though there is an official MM support site and a user-generated Wikithat both can answer many frequently asked questions as well as some not-so frequently asked ones. Of course, the forum is also available for questions.
Dear NoHitter and Everyone who has been generous with your help!

Thanks very much for your collective wisdom. I'm going to try your suggestions with regards to volume on question #2. You're right: I used BOTH options. The difference and impact are not clearly outlined in the hover box when checking them. So how do I bring all songs up to a single, solid volume? Not just in how they play but how they are actually stored? And, in God's name, why would MM include volume leveling if it's such a stumbling block?

With regards to #3, before installing, it looks for Winamp. If not detected, it flat out will not download. It doesn't even give me the option to specify another location. Nevertheless, I'll try again.

On #1...yes. Audiobooks, start about 10 seconds into each track even with crossfade off. I literally have to push the time bare back to the beginning to hear it.

Again, I really appreciate all your excellent feedback!!

Peace,

- Joher
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0403825/

rovingcowboy
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by rovingcowboy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:34 pm

only way to make the volume level to one setting is to use a wav editor. and do it one at a time by rasing the volume of the file to that maximum the file can hold.

that said there is some things that you might want to think about such as months weeks days hours minutes seconds that it will take to do a huge collection..

you might try the free jetaudio program or any other that can convert and save to file that has a setting on it to level the volume to one level setting. i know jetaudio does that when you burn an audio cdrom, but if you can use that option to convert to a file and keep all the same volume level i don't know.

media monkey has a fine volume leveler only it does seem to cut the sound down to the overall level of the file, and not one set volume setting for all song files like the cdburner in jetaudio does.

still in going back to the wav editor route if you can find a program that will normalize all the wav files by doing a batch edit then that might make it look easier then the other way of one at a time. :D

8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

nightrocket
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:33 am

nohitter151 wrote: 2. Your mistake here was using volume analysis and volume leveling. Volume analysis analyzes the track and stores a value in the database and track tag that identifies to MediaMonkey how low you should lower the volume. Volume leveling analyzes the track, then actually reencodes it at a lower volume so that the file itself is altered. So basically, if you do both of these procedures, you're going to be changing the volume double what it would normally be changed.
Hi Nohitter (and Everyone),

Your understanding is that Volume Analysis indicates how I should lower the volume. But according to the q and a I'm attaching below, it indicates that it is meant to compensate for differences in individual song volume by playing them back at a uniform level; whether initially too low OR too loud. Similarly, the online faq says that Volume Leveling goes into the actual file and alters its volume by matching it to a predetermined loudness. Again, meaning that it may increase its volume or lower it. Assuming I'm right, I don't see how using both features would lead to such a problem. One features analyzes the volume, the other one adjusts it to match a volume standard. Follow me? It seems counterintuitive and I'm wondering if Media Monkey needs to rework this if the theory of these features runs counter to what they actually do. Here's the info I'm referring to:

Replay Gain
This is the most standardized approach to volume leveling, providing a comprehensive approach for all audio formats without impacting audio fidelity. Replay Gain implementations use a multi-phase approach: first track volumes are analyzed and the resulting coefficient is saved to the track's tag (Track gain). Then after all tracks on an Album have been analyzed, a single coefficient is saved for all tracks on the album (Album gain). Then, during playback, the Album or Track gain tag is read and the player adjusts the volume up or down accordingly (Album gain is preferable for playing an entire Album and preserving the inter-track volume variances encoded in the original album, while Track gain is preferred for playing a playlist of tracks from various sources). This is an excellent approach for PC-based players, but is limited because many portable devices do not support Replay Gain tags, and thus when tracks are synced to a device, the volume will vary. MediaMonkey supports Replay Gain analysis and playback (per Track and per Album via 'Analyze Volume' and 'Level Playback Volume').

MP3 Gain
This is a variation on Replay Gain, the difference being that rather than saving the analysis co-efficient to a tag, the volume of the MP3 file is actually modified based on the analysis. The benefits of this approach are that like Replay Gain there is no loss in Audio Fidelity, and the resulting MP3 files can be played at level volumes on any MP3 player. The downside is that the approach is limited to MP3. MediaMonkey supports MP3 Gain type volume leveling via the 'Level Volume' command, and can even do so on-the-fly when synching to a device.


I had also asked how to go in and literally change a song's volume. Again, the answer would seem to be to run "Level Volume". Again, I'm basing this on what is entailed above. What are your thoughts? Does it not work as described or is the explanation missing something

nightrocket
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:27 am

Here's another poor distinction...

In the "Replay Gain" instructions, it makes reference to a "Level Playback Volume" option. Checking this option is available in two places: under the "Play" drop-down and in the Tools>Options>Volume Leveling>Level Playback Volume" Okay, easy enough. In theory, after analyzing the track, I need only enable Level Playback Volume and I should hear the results. So far, I don't. I've adjusted it to very soft to very loud. The tracks - yes, those analyzed - are playing at the same volume.

To make matters more interesting, in the "MP3 Gain" instructions it says to enable the "Level Volume" command. Half the problem is that "Level Volume Playback" and "Level Volume" are virtually interchangeable terms for, we now understand, two very different actions. It wouldn't be difficult to give "Level Volume Playback" feature a catchy and distinguishing name. Apple has done this on their player. They call it "Soundcheck". The name isn't as self-explanatory but once understood, is clearly delineated from any other volume option. So, say we call ours "Playback Engineer" (You get the idea). Then, we could call what is currently and confusingly referred to as "Level Volume" the "Track Leveler". Speaking of this setting, the desired loudness can be selected in the Options>Level Volume window. But where does one actually enable it? Well, it's sure not there. I'll start looking... :)

Peace,

- Joher

nightrocket
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:45 am

Okay...

"Level Track Volume" is under the Tools dropdown. It is located RIGHT UNDER "Analyze Volume". No wonder Analyzing and then Leveling seem to go hand in hand. They are right next to each other. It's not intuitive. One would think "Right. I analyze the volume and then I level it so it's like all the others." It SHOULD be that simple. I don't understand why it's not. Instead, according to Cowboy, it just makes the volume extra soft.

I'm starting a virtual riot or act of virtual civil disobediance!!! Not user-friendly for the average person (who doesn't want to spend 5 hours troubleshooting/researching/posting/self-teaching).

Again, I thank all of you for making these hours a little more productive and fun. Community rocks. "Volume" stuff does not. :(

Peace,

- Joher
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0403825/

nightrocket
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by nightrocket » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:18 am

HE SHOOTS, HE SCORES!!!!

It is 5:07 am here in LA. What does this tell you? Media Monkey has become my late night crusade. I'd like to share with others, who may be having similar quandaries, what I've discovered. The "Target Volume Level For Playback" setting (Tools>Options>Volume Leveling) does indeed work but changes made while a track is playing will not immediately effect its volume. It doesn't even reflect a change if you stop and then start the track again. You literally have to stop what you're playing, and play another track altogether. At this point, the new setting manifest. If you do that and then go back and play the first tune, it will also reflect the new volume adjustment. Later today, I'll see how "VOLUME PLAYBACK LEVELING" handles the sound on my tracks as a whole.

Peace,

- Joher
www.imdb.com/name/nm0403825/

rovingcowboy
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Re: Okay Experts: I got 3

Post by rovingcowboy » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:08 am

well not really what i was saying there. but it would sound softer.

the songs i have done the volume leveling in mediamonkey to all were made level to the percent
number of the level option setting in monkey's options panel. which is 98 or 95% on my system.

however the songs were not made to the same level as all the other songs on the system.
the volume was only gauged on the volume of that one song. so when played back with the songs
in the computer playlist they all were different levels. in order to get them the same level that takes
the use of an dps plugin which is what the radio stations do. that is why you can hear the songs
all at the same volume they are all either boosted or muted to what is set in the plugins options.

however if you want you can do that same thing by use of the wav editor like i said above. only it is
one song at a time, you conver them to wav's then you open them in the editor and use its feature to
adjust volume, you then adjust it by adding percentage numbers in the panel and trying a couple
different ones to make sure you get the spikes of the song to the largest ones you can with out touching
them to the other channel or the outside of the edit window.

that is the best way to do it you can then make all the songs the same volume and that will also give you
the best audio visual effects when you play the song. how ever it is that long time thing, some / most editors
have a batch file edit option where you can get all the songs you want to edit selected and then set up your numbers and stuff you want to change, now this of course only works well with the songs all from the same
preformer, because the batch edit's only let you adjust the stuff once then use it on all the songs.

still there is also in most the editors to do a batch normalization of the songs. this is allowing the editor
to pick what is boosted and muted in the song files and will do it for all the songs.
which makes it fast on large librarys only you have to convert them to wav files.

there are some mp3 editors that say they can normalize mp3s with out converting to wav. wheather or not they can do other formats i don't know.

i had mentioned jetaudio that one in there will normalize all the songs to what ever level number you pick
it does this for burning to cdroms i don't know if you can do it to save to or converting a file because i never tried it. but that does do what you want, it makes the soft low whisper voice love songs just as loud as "A hard days night " so you can hear them.

but that brings me back to the dsp plugin's they do that with out doing anything to the song files they use the computer to normalize them before they are sent to the speakers. i have got errors when i used them before with mm 3. but now that mm 3.0.3 is out they have not caused any errors when i use them, i have the very old wide & dynamic plug in for winamp its styled in old knobs and needle meters and very easy to understand once you know to think of the song entering from the left and exiting from the right.

why do i use that plugin if i edit all the songs? simple my sister added lots of songs to help get them in and she got lazy and did not edit any, and i don't feel like redoing all those songs even though they don't really sound good.
their in there now and i'm getting lazy now too. :lol: of course i got 4 computers here and she wants music on all of them, so redoing them is not an option i want to do. :wink:

8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

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