WASAPI plug-in for Vista

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Peter olsen

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Peter olsen » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:45 pm

I am using the WASAPI plug-in for XMPlay v. 3.4.2.1 on W7x64. Works beautifully in bit perfect mode feeding the sounds to my external DAC. The gapless works here. ASIO4All using the Mediamonkey plug-in has a broken gapless playback. If it can be done in XMPlay then it can be done in Mediamonkey too. I am looking very much forward to it appearing in the next version/upgrade of MM.

/Peter

Simon Chick
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Simon Chick » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:15 pm

Sounds exciting. Where do we get it from please?

Peter Olsen

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Peter Olsen » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:15 am

Hi Simon

The WASAPI XMPlay plug-in is available via their website http://support.xmplay.com/. Unfortunately it only works on XMPlay. We have yet (AFAIK) yet to see a usable WASAPI plug-in for MM.
The output is certainly bit-perfect, as my DAC changes sample frequency according to the quality of the music file.... no sample rate conversion...yes!! :-) well... a setting in XMPlay WASAPI plug-in setup window makes it possible to lock the sample frequency but I am not sure WASAPI does the conversion as it should apparently not contain a sample rate converter... hm.. maybe they Microsoft has it built in by now????

/Peter

Holograph
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Holograph » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:18 pm

Some background: WASAPI is the new audio API introduced in Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008 and Windows 7, and is not supported in WIndows XP. Other APIs are backwards-compatible and are still supported, with the exception of kernel streaming (which I've only seen in Foobar2000 anyway).

WASAPI applications work in one of two modes: in shared mode, which is the default, several applications can output audio at the same time. Vista itself runs a high-precision software mixer that handles audio mixing for all applications, and is supposedly significantly improved over the Windows XP mixer. This means you can e.g. see YouTube videos while music is playing. The second - and arguably more interesting - mode is exclusive mode, in which only one application gains complete access to the sound device. This enables low-latency, bit-perfect playback which, at least in theory, means your CDs/loseless audio files are played more accurately. The problem with this mode is that WASAPI doesn't do any sample rate conversion at all, so if the application selects 96KHz/24-bit and plays back a 44.1KHz/16-bit wave file it must perform its own conversion. Since the whole point of the exercise is to get bit-exact audio, this is arguably not really a problem if the sound card supports the source sample- and bit-rate.

Since bit-perfect output is definitely the way to go for any serious audio enthusiast, I think decent exclusive-mode WASAPI support is an absolute must-have for MediaMonkey; however, as one of the Ventis guys pointed out, apparently programming with WASAPI is anything but hassle-free. In the meantime I'm "forced" to use Foobar2000 or XMPlay as the audio player and MM as the library manager; having to switch back and forth between those applications is not much fun at all.

Re XMPlay, while it works fine in shared mode there are still bugs in the exclusive mode implementation (I'm currently trying to help the author debug and solve those issues) which may make it unusable in some scenarios.

Elprior

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Elprior » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:10 am

Hello,

this would definitely be a plus to MM, which I don't want to throw.
Unfortunately, I need this feature to play music through my external dac.
I'm running windows 7 btw (but that should be the very same as for vista).

Please, please, please...

Elp.

Nick63

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Nick63 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:03 pm

Please make it operate in exclusive mode.

danhackley
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by danhackley » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:42 am

From what I have been reading, Mediamonkey is not able to output bit-perfect music to a DAC via USB. Is this correct? If so, this is very surprising, as Mediamonkey is a music player/organiser - what else does it need to do?

I'm planning to output from a dedicated silent PC-based music server via USB to a Weiss DAC2 or Minerva. I like the handling capabilities of MM. The server should be running Windows 7. What should I do?

Thanks
Dan
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

danhackley
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by danhackley » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:24 pm

Any thoughts on this one guys? :)
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

Holograph
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Holograph » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:57 pm

I suggest you test for perceived differences between normal (DirectSound) output and bit-perfect via WASAPI (I've detected differences in my own setup, but it's a fairly high-end headphone setup so your mileage may vary). You can do this using Foobar2000 with the foo_wasapi plugin, or XMPlay (my favourite) using the WASAPI plugin (a quick Google search will land you both). Preferably have someone else (friend, spouse...) switch outputs for you without telling you what's currently on.

If you do find that bit-perfect is the way to go, there are two practical options are your disposal:
1. Don't use MediaMonkey for playback. iTunes (if you can stomach it) does bit-perfect playback as far as I know, or you can use one of the options above. AIMP2 (2 as in squared) is another option that's based on the XMPlay playback engine but provides richer UI.
2. Help us pester the MM guys to take WASAPI more seriously :-)

jiri
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by jiri » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:48 am

WASAPI plug-in for MM 4.0 is currently in development and quite close to being completed, including all the features like Exclusive mode support, Gapless playback and Crossfading. So please wait some time for MM 4.0 (or at least its beta versions) and I'm sure you'll like it! :wink:

Jiri

Holograph
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Holograph » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:40 am

Waiting with bated breath :-)
(with that in mind, you've hardly had any minor releases since 3.0 came out -- why the big leaps?)

Simon Chick
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Location: Hong Kong

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Simon Chick » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:29 am

Wasapi exclusive mode in MM4 huh?

Now that is exciting news.

Looking forward to having that very much indeed.

danhackley
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Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by danhackley » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:45 am

Sounds good. Any projected date for when MM4 may be released?
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

dbdog
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:55 am

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by dbdog » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:40 pm

I've got bit-perfect output working in MediaMonkey recently. I use the out_wave.dll and I have gone into my sound card settings (on XP it's Control Panel>Sound and Audio Devices> Hardware tab> highlight your sound card from list>click properties> then in properties tab expand Audio Devices and select your sound card>click properties and check "do not map through this device"). If you are super picky, to get bit perfect you'll also have to turn off any sound level altering settings in MM (volume control (there is a setting in the config for out_wave.dll), and volume leveling & clipping prevention in MM under Tools>Options> Volume Leveling).

I dearly miss gapless playback and cross-fading so I'm psyched about 4.0 beta and WASAPI. In the mean time at least I'm getting the bits to my external DAC. 8)

Cheers

Matias

Re: WASAPI plug-in for Vista

Post by Matias » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:47 pm

jiri wrote:WASAPI plug-in for MM 4.0 is currently in development and quite close to being completed, including all the features like Exclusive mode support, Gapless playback and Crossfading. So please wait some time for MM 4.0 (or at least its beta versions) and I'm sure you'll like it! :wink:

Jiri
Now that is something really exciting!
Thank you guys.

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