For best possible sound

Get answers about using the current release of MediaMonkey for Windows.

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raharris
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For best possible sound

Post by raharris » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:24 am

There has been discussion on various web sites regarding how to get the best possible sound out of one's music player.

I am not technical enough to do more than parrot some of what I have read.

There is a "bad thing" in Windows called a "K mixer" to be avoided. I have read of other "bad things" but I can not actually remember them by name now.
Various drivers are recommended for best sound but I am unclear if this has impact on all methods of delivering signal for one's stereo

Could a technically adept/sophisticated person please clarify some of these issues?

Specifically
1) What are the settings for best possible sound in XP and Vista for MediaMonkey? This would presume a sound card is the output device.
2) If one uses USB hookup to a DAC, do these issues still exist? What are best settings in this scenario?
3) If one uses streaming technology (as in Remote Speaker Output) - do these issues still exist? What are the best settings in this scenario?

Thanks in advance

rovingcowboy
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by rovingcowboy » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:35 am

depends on your system.

use the direct sound output plugin that monkey has you can adjust its settings to change the
crossfade time and some other things.

use mad input plugin to help with some song files not being played, also use mp3Pro plugin if your
mp3 files don't all play some times that will fix it.

use a dsp plugin. the old one i use wide dynimic is working again so i'm using it for some reason
more likely a microsoft update must have busted it some time ago but now its working so that can be a good thing to use on 16 bit sound.

also if you have a good sound card like santa cruz turtle or better, use it and not the onboard sound.
and don't use the microsoft mapper that can have bad effects if you use it.

not sure about your numbers 2 and 3.?

8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

panos belis
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by panos belis » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:08 pm

this is an important issue, for many of us media monkey fans.

it seems that MM in Vista with direct sound is not at all as good as with asioplugin->asio4all.

I downloaded jrivers mediacenter to check (cause i do not want to switch from my MM) their implementation of direct sound and it seemed to me that it was very very good.

I wonder how they have done it.

the truth is that MM is targeted to a lot of people like me that like music, have tons of songs and they want the best possible sound or else as some people they call it "bit perfect".
plus it seems that for that reason MM3 is losing the audiophile crowd that is not only people that are dedicated to stereo music but also are willing to pay for good sounding apps.

Are there any details regarding MM3 direct sound implementation?
any plans to introduce other implementations?

panos bellis

rovingcowboy
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by rovingcowboy » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:27 pm

mediamonkey had issues with the direct sound in windows back in mm 2.5 so when they made mm 3.0 they released their own direct sound dll and it was working good. maybe they have left something out that vista needed. i don't know about that though? but what i do know is i feel for all you that bought vista. cause Microsoft shelfed all error fixing on it last spring and have been working only on getting windows 7 ready to be released early. so vista was trash canned by Microsoft and they left you that bought it holding the bag.

rumor has it that windows 7 is more like windows xp, and will be released some time in November this yr.
nothing has confirmed that yet but that is the last i have heard of a stable windows 7. :)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

gpzbc
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by gpzbc » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:28 pm

I'm curious to hear more about this topic as well.
--
The gpzbc

panos belis
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by panos belis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:39 am

Just to add in my above description that I use MM3 direct sound / asio-asio4all in Vista to feed a USB DAC.

I hope we will have more details regarding this issue soon.

rovingcowboy
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by rovingcowboy » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:43 am

just to confirm my above rumor , i have seen a tv ad from microsoft last night stating windows 7's up coming release in the next couple of weeks. so nov was a safe guess. :D
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

gpzbc
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by gpzbc » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:05 am

--
The gpzbc

panos belis
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by panos belis » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:22 pm

XP/vista/7 it doesn't matter for what I am talking about and despite their differences and shortcomings,
cause I've seen other Direct Sound implementations in Vista that looked/sounded superior to MM3.

What I am saying is that I wish MM3 to have

a. the best possible output plugins
b. discuss/learn about the difficulties & issues regarding the implementations
c. be open about all the above

I do not have any particular library/skin/fanctionality wishes since MM3 is just fantastic in this area.
But again what is the point of meticulously storing and organizing all these files if one cannot play them back the best way possible.

If I had the skills to build an output plugin I would give it a try but I am not that good.

P.

rovingcowboy
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by rovingcowboy » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:40 pm

what i was saying that for is because most other programs use the windows direct sound plugin.
and monkey had went to a better coded one for mm 3 when they had trouble with it, so windows must have done some changes to it on vista and windows 7. not sure if rusty or one of the others will replace theirs with the windows one again or not. but more likely not since they have controls on it for mediamonkey, they could always move them controls to the options panel. and replace the windows direct sound dll plugin. but again i'm not sure if they are even thinking on doing it. :-?
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. Proscan tablet Android 4.3 ) 7. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

danhackley
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by danhackley » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:30 am

Interesting thread. I would like someone in the know to clarify some of these issues.

I'm at a stage of purchasing a USB DAC (probably a Weiss). I'm keen on getting bit-perfect output via the USB port to the DAC. I'll be using a dedicated music server, probably running Windows 7. Nobody in this thread has mentioned "kernal streaming". What's the best way to get bit-perfect output? If you turn off all effects and processing on the sound, then isn't it "bit perfect" ?

Many thanks
Dan
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

dbdog
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by dbdog » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:57 pm

I'm running MM3 on my XP PC through my SPDIF out to my DAC and I want bit perfect output. I've tried the Kernel Streaming plugin (it doesn't play anything and crashes MM), ASIO (it works fine with Bit Perfect output but I seem to have settled on the Wave Output plugin. It does Bit Perfect output which can switch from 44.1 to 96 on the fly between songs in the playlist. I can turn on or off the volume control in MediaMonkey (my understanding is that it's only Bit Perfect with the volume control disabled).

I'd love to find a gapless solution that is Bit Perfect but there doesn't seem to be one. The ASIO plugin has a box for gapless but it plays silence at the end of tracks regardless. Also the ASIO plugin introduces a tiny silence between songs (annoying for Dark Side of the Moon and live albums types of albums). The Wave Output can be tweaked to play seamlessly on these types of albums but unfortunately it doesn't do gapless.

Any suggestions anyone?

Cheers

danhackley
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by danhackley » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:38 pm

A few questions about your post dbdog:

1. Why have you settled on the Wave Output plugin rather than the ASIO?
2. You say this plugin can do bit perfect output and switch from 44.1 to 96 on the fly; how do you know it is switching, and not just playing everything at 44.1?
3. How do you disable the volume control in MM?
4. Why isn't there a gapless solution that is bit perfect? Doesnt Wave Output allow gapless? What about ASIO? I'm using Mediamonkey Directsound output just now, and it can play gapless.
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

dbdog
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Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:55 am

Re: For best possible sound

Post by dbdog » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:52 pm

See below for responces:
danhackley wrote:A few questions about your post dbdog:

1. Why have you settled on the Wave Output plugin rather than the ASIO?
ASIO leaves a tiny gap between songs so when I'm playing live albums there is a small silent gap between songs. Annoying.
2. You say this plugin can do bit perfect output and switch from 44.1 to 96 on the fly; how do you know it is switching, and not just playing everything at 44.1?
My DAC has leds which indicate which frequency it's streaming at and it clicks between 44.1 and 96 when the song changes. It does it for the ASIO as well but not DirectSound.
3. How do you disable the volume control in MM?
The Wave Output plugin has a setting to disable the volume control.
4. Why isn't there a gapless solution that is bit perfect? Doesnt Wave Output allow gapless? What about ASIO? I'm using Mediamonkey Directsound output just now, and it can play gapless.
Wave Out doesn't do gapless and ASIO has a switch for gapless but it doesn't eliminate the gaps for me. Yes the DirectSound output has all the features I want except it is not Bit Perfect and therefore the sound is not as clear. I think it maps it through kmixer.

danhackley
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Re: For best possible sound

Post by danhackley » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:21 pm

Thanks dbdog. Do you use the Bryston DAC?
Sony Vaio Laptop
Thecus N5200B NAS
Windows 7
MM3 Gold 3.2
Looking for jukebox software that manages a large collection, has good album art integration and plays flac as well as MP3

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