Semi colon symbol query

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bonalymac
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:49 am

Semi colon symbol query

Post by bonalymac » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:57 am

I use MM 4.07, and I alsoo use a prog called Tag & Rename

I find that if I insert a semi-colon (;) symbol and a space in MM, then when I view it in Tag & R, it appears with no space, and a "/" symbol instead. If I do it the other way round however and type the semi-colon in Tag & Rename, then it shows fine in MM.

In the settings in T&R is one which says "Write Unicode data into ID3v2 tags" and this is ticked.

The only thing I can spot in MM is the field marked ID3v2 text encoding where I have a choice of ASCII (always), or ASCII + UTF-16 (when needed). Changing this setting does not affect the behaviour of the semi-colon sysmbol.

Although I'm pretty computer literate (I build my own PC;'s), I do not pretent to understand Unicode or tags in any detail. Searching the forum turned up far too many hits to look through, so that was no help to me.

So if anyone can suggest how I can edit in MM and get this charavcter seen in Tag and rename, I'd be grateful.
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rovingcowboy
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by rovingcowboy » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:10 am

If your using this to separate things in the custom fields for mm you could try changing the symbol that mm uses for separating there is a option for that in the main options panel,.
Post back here and let us know if it works.
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bonalymac
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:49 am

Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by bonalymac » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:20 am

I am using it as a separator, but not in Custom fields, just in the Artists ones.

However I just found a program called MP3Tag which lets me search and replace inside tags. So firstly I filtered to only show the tags containg "/" and then did a search and replace. Worked perfectly.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway. I might change it for the future, but if its so easy to edity, I might just leave well alone.
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Colin
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dtsig
Posts: 3131
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:34 pm

Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by dtsig » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:11 am

bonalymac wrote:I use MM 4.07, and I alsoo use a prog called Tag & Rename

I find that if I insert a semi-colon (;) symbol and a space in MM, then when I view it in Tag & R, it appears with no space, and a "/" symbol instead. If I do it the other way round however and type the semi-colon in Tag & Rename, then it shows fine in MM.

In the settings in T&R is one which says "Write Unicode data into ID3v2 tags" and this is ticked.

The only thing I can spot in MM is the field marked ID3v2 text encoding where I have a choice of ASCII (always), or ASCII + UTF-16 (when needed). Changing this setting does not affect the behaviour of the semi-colon sysmbol.

Although I'm pretty computer literate (I build my own PC;'s), I do not pretent to understand Unicode or tags in any detail. Searching the forum turned up far too many hits to look through, so that was no help to me.

So if anyone can suggest how I can edit in MM and get this charavcter seen in Tag and rename, I'd be grateful.
I just tried this, as T&R is the only thing I use to add, fix or edit my tags (one of the great programs) and I hadn't seen it happen. In MM 4.1 beta, I modified 1 song from 'Rock' to 'Rock; Alternative Rock'. Then I brought up T&R and looked at the file. In Genre it shows 'Rock; Alternative Rock'. I also brought the song up in the 'Edit all tags' and it still appeared normal.

My MM is set as Tools->Options->Appearance->Split multiple-value fields with: ;

Man .. you freaked me out <G>. Although I seldom use MM to edit tags, I just spent a really long time sorting out the Genre and Artists tags so it would display correctly in MM. I would have been sad if this had happened.

Let me know if you have any questions
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bonalymac
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:49 am

Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by bonalymac » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:37 am

Interesting
In MM 4.1 beta, I modified 1 song from 'Rock' to 'Rock; Alternative Rock'. Then I brought up T&R and looked at the file. In Genre it shows 'Rock; Alternative Rock'. I also brought the song up in the 'Edit all tags' and it still appeared normal.
I tried the same and got the same result as you did. But try doing the same in the artist field and let me know what you see.

Colin
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dtsig
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by dtsig » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:12 pm

Yep .. that is what happens with Artist and Album Artist.

Seems like a bug to me. Usage needs to be consistent. I don't like sw that does what it wants with my stuff .. another reason i stay away from iTunes
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Mizery_Made
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by Mizery_Made » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:31 pm

We're talking MP3s with ID3 tags, correct? MM uses "; " (or whatever is set in the options) to display "multiple values". The ID3 specifications however dictate that they be written to the tags with "/" as the separator. That's why you see a difference between MM (or some others like WMP for that matter) and tagging programs like Tag & Rename or MP3Tag. MM reads the tag (with the "/" separator) and displays it as "; " by choice. The other tagging programs mentioned don't make that choice and show you the "/" separator as-is.

scott967
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:01 am

Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by scott967 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:23 pm

It's a little more complicated. For MP3 files (mostly) ID3 tags are used (other file types can also have ID3 tags. It may or may not cause problems with certain readers). MM4 works with ID3 v1 and ID3 v2.3 tags (mostly). ID3 v2.3 tag spec only allows multiple values in certain tags (for example, artist TPE1) and not others (for example genre TCON). Where multiple values are allowed, the spec requires "/" as the separator (for 2.3. ID3 2.4 fixes this, which I guess is commonly known as the "AC/DC" problem). MM4 will correctly write artist1/artist2 in the TPE1 tag frame, regardless of what you set as the "separator" in MM4 options. All tag readers should obey this. Now for something like genre where there is no separator in the spec, MM4 will write whatever you use as the separator into the frame. So genre1; genre2 in the TCON tag frame. Since there is no spec support for this, what a tag reader does when it reads this is dependent on that software. Some will show a single genre of "genre1; genre2".

Note that MM4 uses some ID3 v2.4 tag frames for "dates". You can turn this off by editing the .ini file.

Since ";" exists in Latin-1, setting text to unicode does nothing.

scott s.
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dtsig
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by dtsig » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:31 pm

Mizery_Made wrote:We're talking MP3s with ID3 tags, correct? MM uses "; " (or whatever is set in the options) to display "multiple values". The ID3 specifications however dictate that they be written to the tags with "/" as the separator. That's why you see a difference between MM (or some others like WMP for that matter) and tagging programs like Tag & Rename or MP3Tag. MM reads the tag (with the "/" separator) and displays it as "; " by choice. The other tagging programs mentioned don't make that choice and show you the "/" separator as-is.
I have searched the ID3.org site for the specific location for where this dictate resides, as I have read this 'it is a dictate' thing before and always want to understand things like this. As I have not been able to find where this is could you point me to the link that states this. I would be greatly appreciative.
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BKKKPewsey
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by BKKKPewsey » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:44 pm

See http://id3.org/id3v2.3.0
TPE1
The 'Lead artist(s)/Lead performer(s)/Soloist(s)/Performing group' is used for the main artist(s). They are seperated [sic] with the "/" character.
Everyone has the right to be stupid Image but some abuse the privilege

dtsig
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by dtsig » Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:46 pm

Thanks for that I knew where id3.org was but was hoping for a more pointed link to where it specifies that it must be '/'.

But i will again search the documents.

Thanks again
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Mizery_Made
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by Mizery_Made » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:38 am

Why the need to "search the documents"? The previous post contains a link to the relevant page, and quotes directly the information you were seeking. *scratches head*

dtsig
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Re: Semi colon symbol query

Post by dtsig » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:52 am

For anyone looking for further information search for "4.2.1. Text information frames - details" in the document http://id3.org/id3v2.3.0

Much better defined than earlier id3.org docs.
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