iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Get answers about syncing the current release of MediaMonkey with iPods and other devices.

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G0lluM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by G0lluM » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:49 am

It's because Apple thinks we are all lusers who can't manage our own devices. They like having the reputation of "you plug it in, and it works." So they want to control the entire user experience. /soapbox

Back on topic, thanks for letting us know a solution is forthcoming, Jiri! I haven't sync'd my phone at all since I upgraded to the 3.0 OS so I'm starving for some new tunes on there!
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Mars74
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by Mars74 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:35 pm

SAme for me .... time is getting long .... :D

msfeinstein
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by msfeinstein » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:57 pm

I appreciate that a fix for 3.0 is coming relatively soon. While I clearly would not understand the technical details of the solution, I am curious to know if it is something generic that will apply across future versions of the iPhone OS or if we can anticipate similar delays each time Apple upgrades (and changes the DB format or hash or whatever it is they keep changing). Perhaps it's something of a hybrid framework that will require tweaks each time Apple upgrades but it will be a much quicker process?

Thanks.

G0lluM
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Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by G0lluM » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:36 pm

That's a question that's better posed to Apple rather than the MM dev team - I'm sure they'd be happy to let us all know. Apple being so well-known for being forthcoming and all... ;)

Seriously, though, it's entirely speculation on my part but I'm guessing they'll only make such changes at major numerical version upgrades, i.e. from 3.x to 4.x - but again, it's Apple we're talking about here. And if the number of MediaMonkey users continues to grow, they might decide to make more changes as more users migrate away from iTunes.

My Apple philosophy is upgrade whenever I must, but otherwise don't. I really needed cut and paste, or else I'd still be happily rocking 2.x on my iPhone and sync'ing with MM 3.1 daily. :(
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Wargazm
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by Wargazm » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:53 pm

msfeinstein wrote:I appreciate that a fix for 3.0 is coming relatively soon. While I clearly would not understand the technical details of the solution, I am curious to know if it is something generic that will apply across future versions of the iPhone OS or if we can anticipate similar delays each time Apple upgrades (and changes the DB format or hash or whatever it is they keep changing). Perhaps it's something of a hybrid framework that will require tweaks each time Apple upgrades but it will be a much quicker process?
Here's the thing (other people more in-the-know, please correct me if I'm wrong): the problem is that Apple encrypts their iTunes database. In other words, the "thing" that the iPhone looks at to determine what songs are actually playable by the device is encrypted. To be able to put music on the device that the iPod application can understand, Mediamonkey has to be able to write to that database file. And Apple has the key to the encryption. What the devs are working on is trying to figure out what the key is. You can imagine that this would be a very difficult process.

There's no way to "speed it up" next time, because each time the key is changed the devs have to figure out what the key is again.

(by the way, I assumed you don't have any knowledge of this stuff at all, so if it seems like I'm talking down to you or dumbing stuff down too much, don't take offense. :) )

Wargazm
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by Wargazm » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:54 pm

G0lluM wrote:Seriously, though, it's entirely speculation on my part but I'm guessing they'll only make such changes at major numerical version upgrades, i.e. from 3.x to 4.x
Didn't syncing break between 2.0 and 2.1? I thought it did, but I could be wrong.

G0lluM
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by G0lluM » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:20 pm

You're probably right. I think my iPhone came with 2.1 on it. :oops:

But if they change the way the database on the device is encrypted, wouldn't it force an iTunes upgrade as well? Otherwise iTunes wouldn't have the new encryption scheme either. Or are they independent of one another?

I know they like to "push" you to upgrade whenever they release a new version but it's not *always* mandatory. Or am I wrong?

Anyway, I guess this is starting to drift too far off topic. Thanks for the info Wargazm!
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cadnukes
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Location: Iowa, USA

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by cadnukes » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:23 pm

Would it be possible to just build a new MM app for the iphone? Sort of like what Pandora and Sirius did and bypass using the iPod app all together.

azblk
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by azblk » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:36 pm

cadnukes wrote:Would it be possible to just build a new MM app for the iphone? Sort of like what Pandora and Sirius did and bypass using the iPod app all together.
Apple will never allow such an app in the app store and it will have to distributed via installer or cydia for jail broken phones. There was an app like that called pwnplayer which was better than the apple ipod but apple would not allow it in appstore so it went to cydia but was later abandoned after another os upgrade. Basically the developers got tired of chasing apples tail.

nohitter151
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by nohitter151 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:41 pm

cadnukes wrote:Would it be possible to just build a new MM app for the iphone? Sort of like what Pandora and Sirius did and bypass using the iPod app all together.
No, Apple would never allow it because it duplicates a native function of the iPhone with its "iPod" app. I guess technically it could be done with a jailbroken app, but no one is going to want to jailbreak their phone just to use with MM.
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Wargazm
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by Wargazm » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:15 am

G0lluM wrote:But if they change the way the database on the device is encrypted, wouldn't it force an iTunes upgrade as well?
Yeah, it would...that the one saving grace here, is that they don't update both iTunes and the iPhone firmware very often, so that once the key is cracked we can use it for a while.

Which is why I'm hoping the devs are looking at the 3.1 OS preview released to developers and trying to make Mediamonkey work with that instead of spending time on 3.0, just to have the whole process start again with 3.1
G0lluM wrote:Thanks for the info Wargazm!
sure thing!

ktdt00

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by ktdt00 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:46 pm

Interesting tweet...

Reversed iTunes 3.0 hashing scheme (locations.itdb.cbk file generation) sqlite databases on iPhone, and iTunesCDB format.
3:36 AM Aug 6th from web -Israr Khan

glockwillz

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by glockwillz » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:18 am

Found an interesting thread in a WINAMP forum. Tried it out and it worked well for me.
Note: requires and SSH session with the iPhone/iPod.

1. Before starting, REMOVE all the songs from your iPod using iTunes. 2. Start foobar2000 and sync songs to your iPod with foo_dop as usual. 3. When you're done, start up iPhoneBrowser (or SSH/Mobile Terminal) and in the left hand pane, navigate to /User/Media/iTunes_Control/iTunes 4. In the right hand pane, delete the iTunesCDB file (NOT the iTunesDB file). 5. Start up iTunes and allow it to find your iPod. If you look in the music section, you should see all the files synced using foo_dop. 6. Close iTunes. 7. You must carry out steps 3-6 whenever adding/removing songs with foo_dop

Just replace foobar2000 and foo_dop with MediaMonkey and all my songs and playlists show up and play normally on my iPod.

cmx
Posts: 367
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Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by cmx » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:53 am

Needed to load new music so started up itunes 8.2.

Was kinda surprised at how smooth it went so I experimented around...

Evidently itunes 8.2 is MUCH improved in handling large libraries compared to itunes 7 and previous versions. (122k tracks here)

Still experimenting, yet while a bit sluggish compared to MM, itunes is actually handling my library...something that was impossible previously.

One thing that is INCREDIBLY useful to me is the ability to use Remote with Airport, iphone and itunes. It works flawlessly...might be moving to itunes for playback. It is clear there is still NO WAY I could actually Manage library with itunes...

wing
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: iphone 3g OS 3.0 (developer preview OS)

Post by wing » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:09 pm

But please come back when the Monkey is rocking OS 3.1 - Apple should not win this encryption war.

And iTunes will NEVER be better than Mediamonkey.

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