MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Get answers about syncing the current release of MediaMonkey with iPods and other devices.

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markeh
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:30 am

MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by markeh » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:39 pm

Its become clear that MM works poorly with my new iPod160 7th gen. It kind of works, some of the time... a long list of problems (below).

I've tried all of the standard things, many times. Completely reset my iPod with iTunes and resynch from scratch. Empty the iPod and resync from scratch - both of these take a long time, with about 1/3 of the 12,000 tracks on my iPod in FLAC format that need to be converted (which is one reason why converted files should be saved).

Rebuild the full iPod database (lots and lots of times).

MM currently has about 56,000 tracks, so I think using iTunes is out of the question, not to mention the functionality is very limited. Also no FLAC. I don't know of any other choices to manage and sync music, but would welcome suggestions.

It's hard to tell where the Ventis puts the classic iPods in their priority list. I realize that Apple is no help at all - this is the last Apple product I plan on buying. But some kind of debug/development/trace tool is needed to tell what's happening during an iPod sync, and how the iPod database is being built. This won't get fixed on its own.

Here is what I have noticed:

- - Autoplaylists with more than about 50 tracks will frequently partially sync. A 100 track autoplaylist will end up with 60-80 tracks most of the time - the number appears to be random. About 1/3-1/2 of the time, the full 100 tracks will show up. Sync again and I get a partial list.

- - Some tracks simply will not sync at all. I have no idea why.

- - Some tracks end up "invisible" on the iPod. They sync, because I can see them on the iPod in MM when it's connected. But they don't show up on the iPod. Even a search doesn't find them.

- - Sometimes a genre repeats on the iPod- 2, 3 or more times. Sometimes there are upper/lower case differences in the genre. Under each repeated genre are all the same tracks. Based on file counts, the tracks are actually stored only there once. This doesn't show in MM when the iPod is connected, only on the iPod. An iPod database rebuild does not fix this.

- - Sometimes rebuilding the iPod database will hang, leaving the iPod in an unusable state.

- - On a long sync with lots of FLAC-MP3 conversions, the sync doesn't properly terminate. It will stop forever, using no CPU. In these cases, I can manually terminate the sync, the result is usable on the iPod.

-- The wrong art shows up when playing an album. This is usually fixed by an iPod database rebuild, but it isn't stable - it will return, needing another rebuild.

- - MM isn't reliable in detecting tag changes in tracks and resynching to the iPod. Changing genre, artist, or other fields is sometimes not noted, and the tracks aren't resynched.

I'm sure I could list more, but my fingers are getting tired. I don't seem to remember these things happening on my old 80gb iPod, the problems are severe enough that I think I would have seen it.

I know there is some kind of debugging version of MM. But its rare for MM to crash or freeze. It thinks its doing a great job. Its the results on the iPod that are wrong.

Is there any hope??? Will the next release be better????


MM version 3.2.5.1306, 56,530 files
iPod version 2.0.4 PC (latest) 11,280 tracks
iTunes 2.1.1.14 (latest)
WinXP


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captainmcl
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:55 pm
Location: Frisco, TX, USA

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by captainmcl » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:23 pm

I am experiencing many of the same symptoms. Is there any hope?
CaptainMCL
Frisco, TX, USA

My environment:
Win8, always latest version/build (or beta version) of MMW
LG V20, Android 8.0, all music/podcasts/audiobooks on 64GB external SD card (which may be the source of half of my problems...), always the latest build of MMA

jiri
Posts: 5388
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 7:00 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by jiri » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:36 am

Please try MM 4.0 - currently in beta stage, but very close to being released. There has been a lot of changes and so I believe that it might affect your results.

Thanks,
Jiri

newuser

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by newuser » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:43 pm

I just paid for the Gold MM version 3.2.5.1306 - and I'm having the same crashing-on-startup problem (100% of the time) with my 7th gen ipod 160. None of the threads about stopping/changing/deleting drivers works. Provided this new version works, how do I go about getting a free upgrade to the Gold version?

telliott
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by telliott » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:39 am

Is this still the case that MM can't be relied on for large iPod support? I had to rebuild the database again because MM was trying to auto sync even though I had only added a single track (Send to). Seems any time you cancel, you have to rebuild. It worked but my iPod thinks there's only 1 track (Shuffle tracks info) even though it shows and plays them all.

The BIGGEST problem is playlists. The rebuild wipes out playlists, which can't be added back without MM simply copying all the tracks in the playlist, creating duplicates on my iPod. I can't use autosync without starting from scratch and copying everything over again, which takes many hours with a large iPod and auto converting many tracks from flac. I have no desire to do that only to see autosync break again.

The first time this happened, I used Foobar2000's iPod plugin to "Recover orphaned tracks", which seemed to work better. At least my iPod realized it had all it's tracks.

I don't fully blame MM because it's Apple who created this hostile environment to try to force us to keep using iTunes!

I'm running the latest RC2 of MM4 (1448). I posted about this problem in the beta forum a while back but haven't found any solutions so I figured I would try here. Have there been any improvements in handling of large iPods in MM4? I know we are in the minority.

Are there any other third party tools for managing the latest (last) 160 gig iPod classics? I found a number of them but nearly all are pretty much older and don't support the latest firmware. I will check the Foobar2000 forums also.

At this point, my main goal is getting playlists back on the iPod without starting from scratch or creating duplicates. I will jump to Rockbox in a SECOND once the battery issues are figured out.

Thanks,
Tim

telliott
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:49 pm
Contact:

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by telliott » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:26 pm

Anything new in the 5+ months since I wrote the last post or are the MM developers not in a hurry to address the issues with a device that seems to be at the end of it's life as a new product.

rrfpacker
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by rrfpacker » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:02 am

I have an iPod 160g and flawlessly sync with MM4, matter of fact just did so twice yesterday to clear up an auto-playlist problem. I have over 70 playlists (most over 100 tracks) on mine, the latest of which has over 11,000 tracks and many others over 1,000. I wonder if it isn't the iPod. I'm running MM4 version 4.0.3.1476.

I know I didn't help, but maybe upgrading to latest version will help.

Lowlander
Posts: 45855
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by Lowlander » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:15 am

There is no known issue with 4.0.3 if you do experience one send a debug log (step 4b) to support: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

captainmcl
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:55 pm
Location: Frisco, TX, USA

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by captainmcl » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:49 pm

rrfpacker, it sounds like you're quite successful with the iPod Classic. I got one a year ago but had such trouble with synching -- album art all messed up, and the iPod didn't recognize or handle audiobooks correctly -- so I returned it. Were those known previous issues that have since been resolved? That would be good news... maybe worth looking at the Classic again before it's laid to rest!
CaptainMCL
Frisco, TX, USA

My environment:
Win8, always latest version/build (or beta version) of MMW
LG V20, Android 8.0, all music/podcasts/audiobooks on 64GB external SD card (which may be the source of half of my problems...), always the latest build of MMA

rrfpacker
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by rrfpacker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:29 am

captainmcl wrote:rrfpacker, it sounds like you're quite successful with the iPod Classic. I got one a year ago but had such trouble with synching -- album art all messed up, and the iPod didn't recognize or handle audiobooks correctly -- so I returned it. Were those known previous issues that have since been resolved? That would be good news... maybe worth looking at the Classic again before it's laid to rest!
I have been successful with the iPod. I received it as a gift last November and synced it easily with MM3, however I only use it for music. I only had one problem with my first sync; the album art was all mixed up. Subsequent syncs have been fine and I've synced numerous times with MM4. Not sure what to say to all of you having issues with it. The originator of this thread has so many problems it makes me think the iPod is to blame, but he hasn't posted since he started the thread.
Were those known previous issues that have since been resolved?


I don't know as I didn't follow any threads concerning iPods until I got one. As Lowlander says, there are no known issues at this time and I think that has been the case for a while.

captainmcl
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:55 pm
Location: Frisco, TX, USA

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by captainmcl » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:02 pm

Thanks. It's heartening to hear of your success. Unfortunately the audiobook thing was a non-negotiable for me as well. Darn apple. Why can't we all just play nice?? :(
CaptainMCL
Frisco, TX, USA

My environment:
Win8, always latest version/build (or beta version) of MMW
LG V20, Android 8.0, all music/podcasts/audiobooks on 64GB external SD card (which may be the source of half of my problems...), always the latest build of MMA

poobah
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:40 pm

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by poobah » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:55 pm

rrfpacker wrote:I have an iPod 160g and flawlessly sync with MM4, matter of fact just did so twice yesterday to clear up an auto-playlist problem. I have over 70 playlists (most over 100 tracks) on mine, the latest of which has over 11,000 tracks and many others over 1,000. I wonder if it isn't the iPod. I'm running MM4 version 4.0.3.1476.

I know I didn't help, but maybe upgrading to latest version will help.

So how long should it take to sync? I have just over 11000 songs on a NAS server in FLAC format. I'm using MM4 to convert FLAC to MP4 (quality set to 100%) and send to 160gb Ipod. All seems to work well, but it takes about 1hr to copy 130 files? at this rate it will take over 3 days to finish. Is this about right? I'm on a 3Ghz dual pentium, 4Gb Ram, USB 2.0, and Gigabit ethernet with a 4Tb Terastation. Is this about normal ?

rrfpacker
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by rrfpacker » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:15 pm

I'm sorry I can't help you with your issue. I have only mp3 files so I don't have to go thru the conversion process; I'm guessing that process takes a while. However, if I were to sync all 12,000 tracks it takes about four hours on three year old Vista laptop.

markeh
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:30 am

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by markeh » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:42 pm

poobah wrote:So how long should it take to sync? I have just over 11000 songs on a NAS server in FLAC format. I'm using MM4 to convert FLAC to MP4 (quality set to 100%) and send to 160gb Ipod. All seems to work well, but it takes about 1hr to copy 130 files? at this rate it will take over 3 days to finish. Is this about right? I'm on a 3Ghz dual pentium, 4Gb Ram, USB 2.0, and Gigabit ethernet with a 4Tb Terastation. Is this about normal ?
I don't know what "normal" is. My guess is that its not the copy to the ipod, but the conversion from FLAC. Probably a couple of limitations - dual Pentium (I think this is an older CPU), and bandwidth limitations to the NAS storage. If the iPod is on a USB hub, you might want to attach it directly and see if that makes a difference.

I have the "gold" version of which claims it can use all of the CPU cores - in my case MM thinks it has 8. I'm not sure how efficient this actually is, but in theory more cores should allow better parallelism and be faster since the conversions are completely independent.

It would be nice if MM saved the converted file for future downloads, but it doesn't.

.

markeh
Posts: 250
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 1:30 am

Re: MM vs iPod160....MM loses

Post by markeh » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:47 pm

markeh wrote:Its become clear that MM works poorly with my new iPod160 7th gen. It kind of works, some of the time... a long list of problems (below).

[....deleted...]

MM version 3.2.5.1306, 56,530 files
iPod version 2.0.4 PC (latest) 11,280 tracks
iTunes 2.1.1.14 (latest)
WinXP
.
Well the latest version 4.0.3.1476) seems to be an improvement. Music, especially playlists, now reliably sync. Album covers get out of sync all of the time, but I guess I will just have to live with that - the design of the new iPod makes them pretty useless anyway.

.

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