After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Get answers about syncing the current release of MediaMonkey with iPods and other devices.

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NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:25 pm

Hi,

today I updated MM from 4.0.3 to 4.0.5. Then I changed a bit in the sync configuration (added two playlists with new files).

The auto-sync then synced ALL files to the device, not just the new ones. I did not change any configuration, so
I let MM do the full sync and just had the very same files with same pathes and same names on the device.
After that I closed mm, disconnected the device and connected it again and fired up mm again.
Another try resulted just in the exact same behaviour, MM wanted to sync all files.

I tried this with a simple USB stick as well as with an Android phone. Both times same result.

What is happening here?

BR
NPN

NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:47 pm

I'll update my former post.
Today I made another attempt to get synchronization working properly.
I manually deleted all music files and playlists from both devices (USB stick and android phone).
Then I synced both devices. That worked without problems.
Then I disconnected the phone and reconnected it. Started a synchronization for the phone
and hoped that nothing would be transferred.
But again I got a message that the device has too little storage for all songs and was asked
if I wanted to sync anyway.
This message was always shown and when I opted to sync anyway, the music files were
deleted on the device one by one and immediately rewritten afterwards. I could really see how that
happened in the windows explorer.
This time I rejected and disconnected the pone.
Tried the same with the USB stick, same behaviour.

BTW, I noticed that this does not happen if I start another sync directly after a sync has been
performed without disconnecting the device.

I also noticed that playlists seem to get deleted every time and recreated. No big deal, maybe
that happened with earlier versions as well.

Lowlander
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Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by Lowlander » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Check the music files in Windows Explorer prior to disconnecting and after disconnecting (ie reconnect) and see if there is any changes to Paths/Filenames. For example Sansa device seem to rename folders for external memory on disconnect: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view. ... 266#c31443 This may affect your device as well.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:01 am

Thanks for your reply.
While this may be the case for the android phone (but is not) but it would certainly not happen on the USB stick.
Still, the behaviour is the same for both devices.

SansaMonkey
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:15 am

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by SansaMonkey » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:31 pm

Hello,

with the sansa clip+ the problem only exist, when working in MTP mode.
But syncing all MP3s to the root of the folder "Music" works well, without deleting and resyncing all files. :)

cheyne88
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:06 am

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by cheyne88 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:03 am

Try this: with device plugged in go to Tools/Synch Device/Configure Device. The menu that opens is the Auto-Synch list. Check that All Music is NOT ticked, in fact nothing must be ticked, also not in the tree below (like Location, Artist&Album Artist, Album). Then check the other tab Playlist, if your desired playlist is ticked, then auto-synch the device, that should do it.

NoProperName wrote:Hi,

today I updated MM from 4.0.3 to 4.0.5. Then I changed a bit in the sync configuration (added two playlists with new files).

The auto-sync then synced ALL files to the device, not just the new ones. I did not change any configuration, so
I let MM do the full sync and just had the very same files with same pathes and same names on the device.
After that I closed mm, disconnected the device and connected it again and fired up mm again.
Another try resulted just in the exact same behaviour, MM wanted to sync all files.

I tried this with a simple USB stick as well as with an Android phone. Both times same result.

What is happening here?

BR
NPN

NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:00 am

cheyne88, Thanks for the hint.
That's the fact with the configuration from the very beginning. I never synchronized based on selection of anything other than playlists. So never selected an album or an artist.
I checked again and that is still the case.
But still, each time I start an auto-synchronization ALL files are transferred to the device even if they are already present. I also checked if there is any difference between the previous and the new file on the device. Nothing. File by file the files are deleted and recreated as they were before.
Since I sync multiple GB of music this way, synchronization alwas takes 2+ hours.
And just for the record: the device is an android based smartphone.

Maybe I should add that all my playlists are imported playlists from files on my NAS server, since I access my music from multiple computers and want to be able to have different configurations (and perhaps also use different media players for accessing my music). So whenever I want a new list of music to be on my device, I create an .m3u file based playlist with MM, save it to the NAS and rescan the library. There are still some problems in MM with recognizing changes in the file based playlists, but that is another topic.
I can't imagine that this is a cause for the problem, but you never now...

BTW, I just updated to 4.0.6.1501 and the problem persists.

NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:12 am

I just saw the solution in cheyne88's thread on a similar topic.
The difference I see is that I use auto-synchronization to synchronize. Nevertheless
always everything is copied.
How could it be that auto-sync behaves like sync-selected? Is there any general
configuration which controls that?

Another pecularity:
I now configured that files should be deleted if they are not present on the device.
(Did not have this configured before)
As a matter of fact, no deletions are taking place, but still every file is replaced with
exactly the same file again.

nohitter151
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Location: NJ, USA
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Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by nohitter151 » Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:06 am

NoProperName wrote:I just saw the solution in cheyne88's thread on a similar topic.
The difference I see is that I use auto-synchronization to synchronize. Nevertheless
always everything is copied.
How could it be that auto-sync behaves like sync-selected? Is there any general
configuration which controls that?

Another pecularity:
I now configured that files should be deleted if they are not present on the device.
(Did not have this configured before)
As a matter of fact, no deletions are taking place, but still every file is replaced with
exactly the same file again.
The solution is already discussed above. You need to set the music to be copied to the root Music folder. See http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 66#p341519
MediaMonkey user since 2006
Need help? Got a suggestion? Can't find something?

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NoProperName
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Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:50 pm

nohitter,

I have read that advice but I don't really understand what that means.
Could it really mean that all music files are located flat under Music
without any directory structure based on album title or whatever?
I surely hope this is a misunderstanding that you may be able to clarify easily.

In other words: which directory structure is ok (if any) and which is not?

BR and TIA
NPN

nohitter151
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Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by nohitter151 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:41 pm

NoProperName wrote:Could it really mean that all music files are located flat under Music
without any directory structure based on album title or whatever?
Yes, that's it. Just all your files in one folder named "Music".
MediaMonkey user since 2006
Need help? Got a suggestion? Can't find something?

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Wotan
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:28 am

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by Wotan » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:40 pm

nohitter151 wrote:
NoProperName wrote:Could it really mean that all music files are located flat under Music
without any directory structure based on album title or whatever?
Yes, that's it. Just all your files in one folder named "Music".
If only it were that simple.

Thanks for your assistance, nohitter. Your considerable knowledge and experience is appreciated.

However, this "always copies all files when syncing" problem has been a long-standing one, since at least version 4.0 . I have a Sony Walkman NWZ-S765, and I share this problem with many other users with other devices.

After MUCH fiddling and testing, I've finally narrowed the problem down. Firstly, there is no Destination entry that will fix it, at least in ver 4.0.6.1501 . I've tried over a dozen Destination entries with various syntaxes. Also, this problem does NOT occur in ver 3.2.3.1303 .

What my testing revealed was that the re-copying problem only occurs on files that are auto-converted on-the-fly during syncing. This includes playlists that include auto-converted files. They will be RE-converted and RE-copied every freaking time you sync. For those of us that archive our files in a lossless format such as FLAC, then auto-convert when syncing to devices, this is a MAJOR problem. A dealbreaker. My only solution has been to downgrade back to ver 3.2.3.1303 .

To continue using ver 4.xx , a poor workaround is to pre-convert copies of the files to MP3 or whatever, and create new playlists in such a way as to never auto-sync files that aren't already compatible with the device. Obviously, this isn't really practical.

Try creating a test playlist for syncing, and you'll see this is true. A quick scan and comparison will take place, but no re-copying.

MM ver 4.xx included a complete reworking of the syncing process, with many improvements. However, when a file is auto-converted during syncing, several parameters are changed, such as file size, etc. If MM looks at file size when determining whether or not to re-sync a file, it will see a difference, and try to re-convert and re-copy the file, EVERY TIME. Again, ver 3.2.3.1303 does NOT have this problem.

In a nutshell, ver 4.xx thinks a converted file residing on the device is DIFFERENT from the unconverted file on the PC, and feels compelled to RE-convert and RE-copy it every time a sync takes place.
-- Wotan

Dell XPS 410, Windows 7 Home Premium, M-Audio Firewire 410, MM ver 3.2.3 gold, HTC Rezound, Sony Walkman NWZ-S765 16GB

Lowlander
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Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by Lowlander » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:44 pm

If you sync to the root it fails too?

Related: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=9266
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

Wotan
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:28 am

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by Wotan » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:10 pm

Lowlander wrote:If you sync to the root it fails too?

Related: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=9266
Yes, and if sent to the root, the firmware creates a folder using the name of the ARTIST from the MP3 tag, and stores the MP3 file(s) within that folder. These files will show up in the Walkman player, but are unplayable (empty). The Walkman wants music files under \MUSIC and podcasts under \PODCASTS in order to work properly.

I tried syncing files to the root using .. as well as \ for destination syntax.

Also, the player must use the crappy MTP mode , otherwise it can't read the MM playlists (the player wants .PLA playlists, which can only be done in MTP mode as far as I can tell).

I've seen the link you referenced, however there are some differences in this issue - mine are often MP3 podcast files being recoded on the fly to a higher bitrate that makes the Walkman happy, and it's going to INTERNAL memory (no external memory on this player).

Again, the clincher is that all is well using MM ver 3.2.3.1303 .

Thanks Lowlander, for the input.
-- Wotan

Dell XPS 410, Windows 7 Home Premium, M-Audio Firewire 410, MM ver 3.2.3 gold, HTC Rezound, Sony Walkman NWZ-S765 16GB

NoProperName
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: After Update to 4.0.5.1496: Sync always copies all files

Post by NoProperName » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:37 am

In the meantime I had another look at the behaviour and noticed that when starting auto-sync MM even does recognize how much data has to be synchronized. At the right end of the capacity bar it just announces the exact amount of data that I expect to be synced. Nevertheless, MM copies everything again. So part of the algorithm seems to work while part does not.

Syncing to the root - if it works at all - is not a solution. It is nothing but a workaround and a pretty crude one in my opinion. So I don't try that at all. I don't want 10+ GB of music in hundreds of files being synced to the root folder of the micro sd card in my phone. There are other data on that card which I would still like to find and handle.

So as it stands, whenever I modify the music files on my devices, I just stand the pain an wait for 2+ hours for synchronization to complete. I have some hope on future versions of MM, though.

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