Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [OUTDATED]

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davidbspalding
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by davidbspalding » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:00 pm

jimmy1one wrote:(Emphasis added)
... write a script that will allow us to share lyrics? IT will simply allow us to upload lyrics to a specified MM users site available to registered MM users. It would seem to be the ideal solution,for example I must have 15 to 16 thousand RnB or funk, blues lyrics in my MM data right now PROBABLY more. If we could get the database going and allow MM to share the lyrics when we are connected through the script it would greatly off set all the problems with lyrics databases? .. at least the idea desires discussion
Well, that's a great idea. Let me know when you've resolved the legal issues of hosting copyrighted (ASCAP) lyrics on a third party site. :-? :wink:

Next hurdle. If you want to limit it only to licensed MM users, then the script would have to send a license key/number in the request, which would then have to tie in with Ventis Media's license dB.

Not discouraging the idea, mind you.
Last edited by davidbspalding on Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by trixmoto » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:08 pm

I've discussed a possibility of having a shared library for all users, a community database that could be used for tagging and sharing metadata. I've been mulling over a lot of ideas and got a pretty good idea how I'd do it, but this would be a massive project and unfortunately I just don't have the time at the moment.
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Lowlander
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by Lowlander » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:13 pm

I'd assume that bandwidth would be a mayor concern.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

davidbspalding
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by davidbspalding » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:47 pm

Lowlander wrote:I'd assume that bandwidth would be a mayor concern.
No. I can handle the bandwidth, no question. No frakkin' way I'm walking into the legal brier patch that a shared, online, unlicensed lyrics database presents. YMMV. :D

jimmy1one
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by jimmy1one » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:19 pm

Well, that's a great idea. Let me know when you've resolved the legal issues of hosting copyrighted (ASCAP) lyrics on a third party site. :-? :wink:

Next hurdle. If you want to limit it only to licensed MM users, then the script would have to send a license key/number in the request, which would then have to tie in with Ventis Media's license dB.

Not discouraging the idea, mind you.
Exactly what legal hurdle are you referring to, help me to understand your issue It would appear to be an issue under the fair use doctrine of the copyright law, is that your contention? If so see thousands of sites hosting lyrics that have been uploaded by users with forms asking you to upload lyrics that are not on their sites. I'm an engineer so I'd defer to your greater knowledge if you indeed can state that hosting such a site is indeed or has been held to be illegal. If so is it illegal to down load from such a an illegal site when other program are sold allowing users to do exactly the same thing, one actually has the nerve to ask you to share lyrics then charge you for a subscription. I'd remind you that older Blues and RnB lyrics are more likely to be found on user sites than picked up by Evil lyrics for example. But hey I'm just a user I would ask my daughter who happens to be an attorney but she'd charge for a written opinion. BTW What's the issue with sending the key I have a couple of programs that do exactly that every time you start them as in auto update
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kiwichick
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by kiwichick » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:01 pm

Hi there, I don't think I've used Lyricator since I changed from XP so I don't know if this is an issue with W7 but, with every lyric search I do, all I get in the search results is:

http://www.lyricsvip.com

I'm running latest versions of MM and Lyricator on W7 Home Prem 64-bit.

Cheers for any help.

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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by Al4MM » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:16 am

kiwichick wrote:Hi there, I don't think I've used Lyricator since I changed from XP so I don't know if this is an issue with W7 but, with every lyric search I do, all I get in the search results is:

http://www.lyricsvip.com

I'm running latest versions of MM and Lyricator on W7 Home Prem 64-bit.

Cheers for any help.
Have you read any of the previous posts? Have a look back over the last couple of months for the dread story.

jimmy1one
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by jimmy1one » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:58 am

kiwichick wrote:Hi there, I don't think I've used Lyricator since I changed from XP so I don't know if this is an issue with W7 but, with every lyric search I do, all I get in the search results is:

http://www.lyricsvip.com

I'm running latest versions of MM and Lyricator on W7 Home Prem 64-bit.
Cheers for any help.
It's not working properly at the moment there is an issue with the site. Some of us use Lyricator batch files as a away to compare and authenticate songs in our database. IMO humble as it maybe it is indeed a non profit and educational effort, discography in its true form. In fact there is no other way to tell if the particular song is indeed being performed by the represented artist on the asserted album without being able to verify the lyrics. A lot of us buy discographies rather than hunt down the original release mainly due to costs. However in most cases even when the material has been remastered the content of the original release and the discography version are not the same nor is the quality. Now comes the fun part finding the original release and comparing the results. It's a hobby, a labor of love there's no way to make a profit from it, just a way for folks like me to discuss and enjoy our music.
Trix says it would be a massive effort. Depending on the implementation is what I gather from his post, I don't think the script would be massive clearly he must be talking about maintaining the database something needs to be done. When anyone tells me something is illegal and a simple search reveals 144,000,000 hits of the purported illegal act it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Back in the day programmers use to take offense if they were told you can't do this now they seem to give up without even discussing how it could be done. Remember when we were told we could not rip our own CDs or record music steaming from the net :roll:
Never let the truth influence your opinion, you can't fix stupid

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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by SquirrelScript » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:54 am

Rvan wrote:Another method for fix it without own server?
Learn & understand Javascript MooTool :)

yogu wrote:man... I really miss Lyricator!!
So, lemme ask ya;'ll, there's a new version in the works? I can't find any other batch lyrics taggers on the web.
THANKS!!
Nope. Not yet, anyway,

davidbspalding wrote:Just checking into this thread after seeing the dreaded "lyricsvip.com" results.... :roll: WTH happened....?

I have hosting with unlimited bandwidth, I could try hosting the .PHP file if someone actively working on it wants to PM me with instructions. No time tonight to go through 9 pages of thread posts. :o

BTW, anyone know what happened to our Lyricator primary developer?
_______________

Addendum:

Or point me to the post with the most recent instructions for hosting the .php file online.

My offer to host is open only so long as the .php file uses an open API on a cooperating search site(s). I do reserve the right to remove it without notice ... but won't unless necessary. ;)
This is what happen.
  • 1.) Lyricator uses a site called lyricsplugin.com, which got its results from lyricsvip.com.
    2.) LyricsPlugin.com changed its API, which disabled the correct lyrics given to Mediamonkey.
    3.) Between ripken204, Semmetju, vlatro and Canoa, they came up with a fix, however the solution was web based.
    4.) I hosted the "fix".
    5.) LyricsPlugin.com then blocked my hosting.
It used to look like: MediaMonkey (Lyrictor) -> LyricsPlugin.com -> LyricsVIP.com
So with the old solution: MediaMonkey (Lyrictor) -> SquirrelScript.net -> LyricsPlugin.com -> LyricsVIP.com

Now... How to get it working again?
  • 1.) we can keep replacing the host for the old solution (aka the bit where it says "SquirrelScript.net"), but when LyricsPlugin blocks the new host, it will not work again.
    2.) Each user, sets up their own web server, host it themselves . This would be a lot harder to block, however not everyone would be able to do this.
    3.) We can re-code it to bypass the middle men, and pull the lyrics from lyricsvip. Hopefully this can be done straight from MediaMonkey
The last option is the best option, however. It needs the most work. Right now, I haven't got the time to do it.

I'm not sure whats happen to the primary developer or the person that took it over.
Its really kind of you davidbspalding to host it, but it would only be a "temp" fix as well as other scripts for other programs can quickly "update" to use your hosting.
Also we wouldn't be able to give protection - because the script is all open source - therefore it would be only too easy to see the protection

Rvan wrote:SquirrelScript, we need you, please!
Sorry for the delay, I haven't got much free time at the mo as I'm moving house. I haven't yet got the internet there (I'm currently catching up with stuff at a mates house)

BlueDragon wrote:if you provide the php file on your webserver to be used by everybody, isn't it very likely that you will be blocked too?
Yep. It would only be a temp fix.

davidbspalding wrote:I need a little background info ... who would be blocking me?
LyricsPlugin.com

BlueDragon wrote:i guess http://www.lyricsplugin.com
look at the lyrics.php and you might see that the lyrics come from that site.
When you run Lyricator, Mediamonkey calls the lyrics.php which takes the text from lyricsplugin.com and sends it to MM.

And it's not very difficult to block a certain website to access your own website.
That means that everytime a site gets blocked we have to update Lyricator and find a new server :roll:
Yep. This is why we need to find a new "fix". Either:
MediaMonkey -> LyricsVIP.com *BEST*
MediaMonkey -> SquirrelScript.net -> LyricsVIP.com

davidbspalding wrote: So I thought that a continuing problem is having a host site who can take calls from everybody's MM. But if LyricsPlugin.com is blocking third party sites from hitting them via a PHP page,... my hosting is a temporary solution, right?

Has anyone reached out to them DIRECTLY and asked them to let MediaMonkey Lyricator query them? Either directly, or through an online third party host? If they're willing to let one third party site do it, and throttle on their end the queries, that would get us to home plate, eh?

I can't find a contact # in their domain registration, and their front page only offers WinAmp and WMP plug-ins ... I'd like to talk to someone, perhaps they'd be willing to take on Lyricator support. Or tell us to blow off, they only want plugins "displaying" lyrics, not downloading them as plain text.
(Lyricsplugin.com blurb: Lyrics Plugin is a piece of software tailored for music fans. To put it simply - it is an add-on to view lyrics in WinAmp or Windows Media Player. No more searching for lyrics. Just start listening to your favourite songs and lyrics will be displayed automatically. Oh, and if lyrics is not found, you can add it yourself :)
Yes, its only a temp fix.
The problem is, there is no way of letting our "MediaMonkey" requests.
They can't unblock squirrelscript.net, as then other sites/scripts can just use that to access their site.
They cant put protection on the mediamoney script, becase the script is all open source, they can just see whats what!
The only real fix is to bypass them (LyricsPlugin)
only want plugins "displaying" lyrics, not downloading them as plain text.
Sorry?

lytninb wrote:Okay, I've read and read and am confused. Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to use this extension? Go here, go there, download this, move here, update that.... I'm lost.
Thanks in advance.
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... or#p270157

jimmy1one wrote:OK guys here's my question why not have trix or some of the other scriptors write a script that will allow us to share lyrics? IT will simply allow us to upload lyrics to a specified MM users site available to registered MM users. It would seem to be the ideal solution,for example I must have 15 to 16 thousand RnB or funk, blues lyrics in my MM data right now PROBABLY more. If we could get the database going and allow MM to share the lyrics when we are connected through the script it would greatly off set all the problems with lyrics databases? In a few weeks we could have a significant resource :roll: If the idea panned out we could get it added to main program or pay an annual fee if we need a DEDICATED SERVER. I'd love something like it at least the idea desires discussion
Its a great idea! Its just a question of, time and Hosting/Cost and making sure that they are the "correct" lyrics, a quicker way would be to use a database which is already setup. :)

davidbspalding wrote:
jimmy1one wrote:(Emphasis added)
... write a script that will allow us to share lyrics? IT will simply allow us to upload lyrics to a specified MM users site available to registered MM users. It would seem to be the ideal solution,for example I must have 15 to 16 thousand RnB or funk, blues lyrics in my MM data right now PROBABLY more. If we could get the database going and allow MM to share the lyrics when we are connected through the script it would greatly off set all the problems with lyrics databases? .. at least the idea desires discussion
Well, that's a great idea. Let me know when you've resolved the legal issues of hosting copyrighted (ASCAP) lyrics on a third party site. :-? :wink:

Next hurdle. If you want to limit it only to licensed MM users, then the script would have to send a license key/number in the request, which would then have to tie in with Ventis Media's license dB.

Not discouraging the idea, mind you.
This could only be done by the official MediaMonkey team - as I believe they are the only people that have access to license key/number. Plus they would have a hard time to authorize users (keeping users license key/number encrypted)

jimmy1one wrote: It's not working properly at the moment there is an issue with the site. Some of us use Lyricator batch files as a away to compare and authenticate songs in our database. IMO humble as it maybe it is indeed a non profit and educational effort, discography in its true form. In fact there is no other way to tell if the particular song is indeed being performed by the represented artist on the asserted album without being able to verify the lyrics. A lot of us buy discographies rather than hunt down the original release mainly due to costs. However in most cases even when the material has been remastered the content of the original release and the discography version are not the same nor is the quality. Now comes the fun part finding the original release and comparing the results. It's a hobby, a labor of love there's no way to make a profit from it, just a way for folks like me to discuss and enjoy our music.
Trix says it would be a massive effort. Depending on the implementation is what I gather from his post, I don't think the script would be massive clearly he must be talking about maintaining the database something needs to be done. When anyone tells me something is illegal and a simple search reveals 144,000,000 hits of the purported illegal act it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Back in the day programmers use to take offense if they were told you can't do this now they seem to give up without even discussing how it could be done. Remember when we were told we could not rip our own CDs or record music steaming from the net :roll:
Yes it would be a HUGE effort.
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean its legal, plus just because "everyone" else is doing it, still doesn't make it legal too.
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davidbspalding
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by davidbspalding » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:08 am

Ok, IANAL, but I work with some from time to time....
jimmy1one wrote:
Well, that's a great idea. Let me know when you've resolved the legal issues of hosting copyrighted (ASCAP) lyrics on a third party site. :-? :wink:
Exactly what legal hurdle are you referring to, help me to understand your issue It would appear to be an issue under the fair use doctrine of the copyright law, is that your contention? If so see thousands of sites hosting lyrics that have been uploaded by users with forms asking you to upload lyrics that are not on their sites. I'm an engineer so I'd defer to your greater knowledge if you indeed can state that hosting such a site is indeed or has been held to be illegal. If so is it illegal to down load from such a an illegal site when other program are sold allowing users to do exactly the same thing, one actually has the nerve to ask you to share lyrics then charge you for a subscription. I'd remind you that older Blues and RnB lyrics are more likely to be found on user sites than picked up by Evil lyrics for example. But hey I'm just a user I would ask my daughter who happens to be an attorney but she'd charge for a written opinion. BTW What's the issue with sending the key I have a couple of programs that do exactly that every time you start them as in auto update
Go ahead and ask her. I think if you look on any lyrics site,[1] they have secured a license to republish them. Lyricwiki,com (I didn't see the post identifying why a Lyricator query to that site doesn't work now...) licenses the lyrics through Gracenote. In order to have a database for Lyricator to upload and download, I presume you'd have to get a license to distribute lyrics, perhaps paying fees.

[1] And please do tell me if you find a lyrics site that lets you copy or download lyrics and has no licensing or copyright notices on the same site.

I don't think you'll have much luck claiming that hosting them for free for use in MM is "fair use." Fair use doctrines are a limitation to copyright law, not a law or right. IOW, you don't have "fair use rights"; there are fair use exceptions with which you may be able to defend your reuse or redistribution of a copyrighted work in court. And you have to be prepared to defend your "fair use" in court ... start setting aside money now if you want to to follow that path.

Believe me, there are lawyers out there who will jump on the chance to drag someone into court over an alleged copyright violation. I do not want to be on the receiving end of that.

As for the key exchange, no it's not difficult, I just presumed that you'd have to have a link from the database hosting site and MM's API for checking keys. I'm sure Ventis would want to be involved. ;)

Some background reading for your enjoyment:

http://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Copyright:_Fair_Use
http://www.teachingcopyright.org/handout/fair-use-faq
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/09/fi ... ght-trolls
http://www.eff.org/issues/copyright-trolls

Maybe Ventis can augment MM in a future release, and handle the licensing, or find a lyrics host that already has license agreements who is willing to let MM download lyrics.
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SquirrelScript
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by SquirrelScript » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:22 am

davidbspalding wrote:
BlueDragon wrote:
davidbspalding wrote: Or point me to the post with the most recent instructions for hosting the .php file online.
a few posts before yours ;)
Thanks, Rvan's post gave me A Clue. => SquirrelScript has a PM from me. Stay tuned....
I can't reply. Your PM has been disabled?
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Peke
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by Peke » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:58 pm

Best regards,
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shrodes
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by shrodes » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:16 am

Signed up just to try to help :D

There is a Songbird extension called LyricMaster that does what this plugin used to. I'm 99% sure it gets from LyricVIP in the same manner, but does it with client side JS, so there's no blocking.

Anyway, I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to post the specific JS files for the devs of this plugin to view, but you can download the XPI from here:
http://addons.songbirdnest.com/addon/1230

Then just rename to .zip, extract the files, and you'll see the JS. Not sure if that's portable to a MM plugin or not, but that's hopefully what you guys are good at.

Either way, there is an alternate batch lyric downloader, it just means you'll have to use Songbird as a middle-man.

EDIT: There is a bug with the current stable, but it can be fixed (as per the comments) by changing relevant lines in lm_fetcher.js and pane.js to:
var url = "http://www.lyricsplugin.com/wmplayer03/ ... ontent.php?"
+ "artist=" + returnartist
+ "&title=" + returntitle
+ "&time=" + timestamp
+ "&hash=" + id;

EDIT2: Or there's this modded one, but it doesn't use LyricsPlugin as a source (but rather letras.terra.com.br as first lyric source, lyrdb.com as second lyric source)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?4xhp17sy5abksep

davidbspalding
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Re: Lyricator - Batch Lyrics Updater v1.00 [MM3]

Post by davidbspalding » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:48 am

jimmy1one wrote:... When anyone tells me something is illegal and a simple search reveals 144,000,000 hits of the purported illegal act it kind of rubs me the wrong way. Back in the day programmers use to take offense if they were told you can't do this now they seem to give up without even discussing how it could be done. Remember when we were told we could not rip our own CDs or record music steaming from the net :roll:
Something doesn't have to be "illegal" for you to get sued into oblivion by copyright holders with much, much deeper pockets than you. Read in The Register and other IT news sources, they're full of stories of biggies like the RIAA suing the #*@& out of grandmothers and children over some P2P activity.

Again, I think it's a fine idea (though there are 144,000,000 other sites already hosting lyrics?), but who's going to provide the legal defense or pay for licensing fees? Show me the money. :)
SquirrelScript wrote:I can't reply. Your PM has been disabled?
Nope, I have 5% of my PM box in use. And I receive PMs from others. OOPS, I had it turned off for other users. :oops: You can reply now.


SquirrelScript wrote: This is what happen.
  • 1.) Lyricator uses a site called lyricsplugin.com, which got its results from lyricsvip.com.
    2.) LyricsPlugin.com changed its API, which disabled the correct lyrics given to Mediamonkey.
    3.) Between ripken204, Semmetju, vlatro and Canoa, they came up with a fix, however the solution was web based.
    4.) I hosted the "fix".
    5.) LyricsPlugin.com then blocked my hosting.
It used to look like: MediaMonkey (Lyrictor) -> LyricsPlugin.com -> LyricsVIP.com
So with the old solution: MediaMonkey (Lyrictor) -> SquirrelScript.net -> LyricsPlugin.com -> LyricsVIP.com

Thanks very much for the distillation. Makes it much clearer now. So ... I suppose we cannot query LyricsVIP.com directly. But see some other suggestions have been floated recently. Again, I'll host any updated LYRICS.PHP file as needed (for functional testing or load-testing).
SquirrelScript wrote: Now... How to get it working again?
  • 1.) we can keep replacing the host for the old solution (aka the bit where it says "SquirrelScript.net"), but when LyricsPlugin blocks the new host, it will not work again.
    2.) Each user, sets up their own web server, host it themselves . This would be a lot harder to block, however not everyone would be able to do this.
    3.) We can re-code it to bypass the middle men, and pull the lyrics from lyricsvip. Hopefully this can be done straight from MediaMonkey
The last option is the best option, however. It needs the most work. Right now, I haven't got the time to do it.
I agree, the butthead middlemen seem to be causing more trouble than they're worth.
SquirrelScript wrote:
DavidSpalding wrote:]only want plugins "displaying" lyrics, not downloading them as plain text.
Sorry?
That site offers their own proprietary (closed source) plug-ins for WinAmp and Windows Media Player, and I'm guessing that the plug-ins only "display" the lyrics with no ability to cache, copy, keep on HDD for future reference or use outside of their plugin.

SquirrelScript wrote:
jimmy1one wrote:OK guys here's my question ... If we could get the database going and allow MM to share the lyrics when we are connected through the script it would greatly off set all the problems with lyrics databases? In a few weeks we could have a significant resource :roll: ....
Its a great idea! Its just a question of, time and Hosting/Cost and making sure that they are the "correct" lyrics, a quicker way would be to use a database which is already setup. :)
I can host, space and bandwidth are not a factor in my situation, it's only the legal issues that concern me.
SquirrelScript wrote: ... This could only be done by the official MediaMonkey team - as I believe they are the only people that have access to license key/number. Plus they would have a hard time to authorize users (keeping users license key/number encrypted)
I concur.

SquirrelScript wrote:
jimmy1one wrote: ... Depending on the implementation is what I gather from his post, I don't think the script would be massive clearly he must be talking about maintaining the database something needs to be done. When anyone tells me something is illegal and a simple search reveals 144,000,000 hits of the purported illegal act it kind of rubs me the wrong way.....
Yes it would be a HUGE effort.
Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean its legal, plus just because "everyone" else is doing it, still doesn't make it legal too.
True. As I said, it's not even a matter of being "illegal," but of (I suspect; IANAL) violating publishing copyrights on the lyrics in the database. Even just seeming to violate copyright or otherwise "sharing" copyrighted material opens the host up to lawsuits by people with deeper pockets. I think it's far easier to simply tie in with someone who's resolved this liability.

I'm pausing to consider that, lacking more specific information, the lyrics site we were querying have suddenly blocked their API because someone suggested that letting third parties download and copy without limit any ol' lyrics stored in the database presented a problem. So again, I suggest a direct dialog with a site that is hosting lyrics. If a developer wants to maintain the script, I'm willing to collaborate and handle the dialog with the queried sites to establish the permissions boundaries. I have some superb IP lawyers in my firm whom I could probably get a little afterhours help from (within reason; they're not going to represent me in court for any of this).
«Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand.» Chinese proverb
T43 XP-SP3 2GB RAM, dual hard drives, MM 4.0.3 Gold; Ipod Classic 7G v2.0.4, Nano 3G v1.1.3.

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