Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:08 am
I would like to follow the post from UncleBoarder with a reset back to the original 'idea' post I made over a year ago. The proposed idea was to use the power of MediaMonkey's (MM's) ability to manage a music library/database with SqueezeCenter's ability to stream the music to players. Yes, MM can play music nicely when you're in front of the computer. But you can't control MM play using an iPhone or remote control. There are hundreds of other solutions that also let you play music on a PC including the popular Winamp (my favorite) or iTunes (if you like Steve).
The purpose of the suggestion was to combine the power of remote playback using remote audiophile devices such as SqueezeBox (SB) and remote control of what is playing using a LinkSys remote (Squeezebox Duet) or an iPhone/iTouch/iPad (iPeng) with the power of MM's library management.
It's worth reading the background information from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezebox ... ry_2008.29 for additional information in case you want to see more about the devices.
SqueezeBox (SB) is the player, and SqueezeCenter (SC) is the streaming source that reads the music database and sends it to the player. Decompression and playback is done in SB, providing an extremely high quality latency free audio playback. The SB device is usually located in your stereo system, with some homes deploying multiple SBs in different rooms of the house (Living Room stereo system, Master Bedroom Stereo, Kitchen countertop etc.) For those that want to stream music from the music server (SC) to their PC, there is a SqueezePlayer (SP).
SqueezeCenter is the core of the SC/SB setup, and is the software that controls playback to the various players (SBs, SPs, etc.) and provides powerful capabilities for controlling many players, and to sync those players together if you want to stream music to multiple rooms simultaneously. The most powerful feature SC is that you can use a remote control (SB Duet) or your iPhone/iTouch/iPad (using iPeng) to control playback from anywhere in your house.
The problem with SC is that it has absolutely no ability to manage a library and is implemented as a free Perl program that runs under your web browser. It's slow. Very slow. And since it's free there is no motivation to upgrade the capabilities. It can scan a disk directory. Rescanning takes hours. There is an add-on that can force re-scans at night. So when you add a song to your library you can't play it until tomorrow.
MM is fabulous at library management, and slices and dices like nobody's business. The original post from a year ago suggested combining the library management with SC's stream control. The specific suggestion was to extract the streaming/remote interface portion of SC (which is open source) and inserting it into MM. This would allow MM to act as a SC-like media server to SB devices. SB Duet, iPhone/iPeng etc. could be used to select what is playing (or you could use the PC screen... but what's the point?). You could select playlists, or setup auto-streaming from hundreds of internet radio sites (used to be thousands, but you know... with the economy the way it is...).
(Ed. note for MM exec's... if you make this work, Cisco may be interested in acquiring the company to add to the Linksys SC/SB solution set... they are always looking for ways to bring market share into their products while adding value they can charge for.)
So to respond to the various posts:
1. Anybody that starts with "I can select what I play using the MM interface" is missing the point. Using MM to select what to play forces you to be in front of the PC. Can't use a remote or iPhone/iTouch, and can't stream to the living room audio system.
2. Attempting to sync two databases also misses the point. The point is to have one database with real-time update. There was a very clever Vbasic script posted by m_schuitema to tell SC to play the same song... as long as the libraries are in sync (which are just file directories). With rescan in SC taking 4 hours, you can play your song "soon". Poster 'Wbdh' showed one of the many problems with this path. It's similar to the wmb54g solution above. And it still requires #1 above.
3. Using 3 database makes it worse. Specifically using Windows Media Player (WMP) to somehow stream to SC and managing your database with MM sounds insane. Closely related is the idea of using the brain dead iTunes library management and the SC 'iTunes connection' to somehow keep things organized. For those that haven't tried this, it's worth wasting a weeking playing with it. You'll realize how brain dead it really is. There is a reason it's been abandoned.
4. Using PS3 mediaserver? Mario loves this device. Music doesn't. However note that the PS3 IS in the living room audio system, so you can use the PS3 to select what song to play using the PS3 remote. And using the WMP database of course. And not using MM because it fights with WMP. But it may work for some of you.
5. For those that talk about library, it's more than just the filename. It's the 'star ranking', and the 'number of times played', and the playlists, and the streaming media sources. MM is amazingly great at managing this stuff.
6. To reply to the post from UncleBoarder about using NAS, any networked computer can be an NAS. But they are just files, and you still need a SqueezeCenter (SC) to stream the data to your playback device (SB, SP). How long will it take you to add an mp3 song and play it through your NAS/SC/SB solution? Last time I did it, I measured about 20 minutes getting SC to scan it in vs. under 5 seconds using MM.
And to 'gpzbc' interesting 'marketing' teases about MM4 taking music from WMP. You can do this with Winamp already in a free, much lighter weight program. And then you're tied to the WMP library management. Have you used this solution? Why would you ever want to do this?
So here we stand with a media dominant play controller (iTunes) that's brain dead with very limited library management. An audiophile quality remote capable playback system (SB/SP/Duet/iPeng) that can only stream from a POS database server. An excellent music library management system (MM) that only talks to itself (though I'll give it a nod to attempting to sync to my iTouch... it trashed the filesystem and forced a full restore on the device). And of course a super fragmented bunch of pieces that can be used as mortar to make something work. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to cobble them together.
Ideas are most welcome and appreciated. For now I'm wonderously using SC/SB/iPeng/MM/WinAmp/iTunes/PS3 together that works on any day except those ending in 'y'. Your mileage may vary.
The purpose of the suggestion was to combine the power of remote playback using remote audiophile devices such as SqueezeBox (SB) and remote control of what is playing using a LinkSys remote (Squeezebox Duet) or an iPhone/iTouch/iPad (iPeng) with the power of MM's library management.
It's worth reading the background information from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezebox ... ry_2008.29 for additional information in case you want to see more about the devices.
SqueezeBox (SB) is the player, and SqueezeCenter (SC) is the streaming source that reads the music database and sends it to the player. Decompression and playback is done in SB, providing an extremely high quality latency free audio playback. The SB device is usually located in your stereo system, with some homes deploying multiple SBs in different rooms of the house (Living Room stereo system, Master Bedroom Stereo, Kitchen countertop etc.) For those that want to stream music from the music server (SC) to their PC, there is a SqueezePlayer (SP).
SqueezeCenter is the core of the SC/SB setup, and is the software that controls playback to the various players (SBs, SPs, etc.) and provides powerful capabilities for controlling many players, and to sync those players together if you want to stream music to multiple rooms simultaneously. The most powerful feature SC is that you can use a remote control (SB Duet) or your iPhone/iTouch/iPad (using iPeng) to control playback from anywhere in your house.
The problem with SC is that it has absolutely no ability to manage a library and is implemented as a free Perl program that runs under your web browser. It's slow. Very slow. And since it's free there is no motivation to upgrade the capabilities. It can scan a disk directory. Rescanning takes hours. There is an add-on that can force re-scans at night. So when you add a song to your library you can't play it until tomorrow.
MM is fabulous at library management, and slices and dices like nobody's business. The original post from a year ago suggested combining the library management with SC's stream control. The specific suggestion was to extract the streaming/remote interface portion of SC (which is open source) and inserting it into MM. This would allow MM to act as a SC-like media server to SB devices. SB Duet, iPhone/iPeng etc. could be used to select what is playing (or you could use the PC screen... but what's the point?). You could select playlists, or setup auto-streaming from hundreds of internet radio sites (used to be thousands, but you know... with the economy the way it is...).
(Ed. note for MM exec's... if you make this work, Cisco may be interested in acquiring the company to add to the Linksys SC/SB solution set... they are always looking for ways to bring market share into their products while adding value they can charge for.)
So to respond to the various posts:
1. Anybody that starts with "I can select what I play using the MM interface" is missing the point. Using MM to select what to play forces you to be in front of the PC. Can't use a remote or iPhone/iTouch, and can't stream to the living room audio system.
2. Attempting to sync two databases also misses the point. The point is to have one database with real-time update. There was a very clever Vbasic script posted by m_schuitema to tell SC to play the same song... as long as the libraries are in sync (which are just file directories). With rescan in SC taking 4 hours, you can play your song "soon". Poster 'Wbdh' showed one of the many problems with this path. It's similar to the wmb54g solution above. And it still requires #1 above.
3. Using 3 database makes it worse. Specifically using Windows Media Player (WMP) to somehow stream to SC and managing your database with MM sounds insane. Closely related is the idea of using the brain dead iTunes library management and the SC 'iTunes connection' to somehow keep things organized. For those that haven't tried this, it's worth wasting a weeking playing with it. You'll realize how brain dead it really is. There is a reason it's been abandoned.
4. Using PS3 mediaserver? Mario loves this device. Music doesn't. However note that the PS3 IS in the living room audio system, so you can use the PS3 to select what song to play using the PS3 remote. And using the WMP database of course. And not using MM because it fights with WMP. But it may work for some of you.
5. For those that talk about library, it's more than just the filename. It's the 'star ranking', and the 'number of times played', and the playlists, and the streaming media sources. MM is amazingly great at managing this stuff.
6. To reply to the post from UncleBoarder about using NAS, any networked computer can be an NAS. But they are just files, and you still need a SqueezeCenter (SC) to stream the data to your playback device (SB, SP). How long will it take you to add an mp3 song and play it through your NAS/SC/SB solution? Last time I did it, I measured about 20 minutes getting SC to scan it in vs. under 5 seconds using MM.
And to 'gpzbc' interesting 'marketing' teases about MM4 taking music from WMP. You can do this with Winamp already in a free, much lighter weight program. And then you're tied to the WMP library management. Have you used this solution? Why would you ever want to do this?
So here we stand with a media dominant play controller (iTunes) that's brain dead with very limited library management. An audiophile quality remote capable playback system (SB/SP/Duet/iPeng) that can only stream from a POS database server. An excellent music library management system (MM) that only talks to itself (though I'll give it a nod to attempting to sync to my iTouch... it trashed the filesystem and forced a full restore on the device). And of course a super fragmented bunch of pieces that can be used as mortar to make something work. Unfortunately, I haven't found a way to cobble them together.
Ideas are most welcome and appreciated. For now I'm wonderously using SC/SB/iPeng/MM/WinAmp/iTunes/PS3 together that works on any day except those ending in 'y'. Your mileage may vary.