SUB GENRES

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I would like support for sub genre's (nested genre's)?

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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby ZvezdanD » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:09 pm

RobertSmith wrote:I wonder if it was possible to skip the first "manual" level (writing pop, rock, dance etc.)

I don't think so. I am not sure if I understand what you want, but I doubt it is possible using only the Genre field.

By the way, I could create filter to limit display only for tracks that have one of 10 most used genres, but such node cannot display other tracks. Well, I could create another node for the rest of tracks and put those two nodes in the same group, but you need at least two masks for this. Still not sure if this is what you want.
Magic Nodes 4.3.2/5.1 RegExp Find & Replace 4.4.8/5.1  Invert Selection/Select None 1.5.1  Export/Create Playlists for Child Nodes 4.1/5.3.6  Expand Child Nodes/Expand All 1.1.2  Event Logger 2.7  Filtered Statistics Report 1.6  Track Redirection & Synchronization 3.4.2  Restore/Synchronize Database 3.1.7/4.0  Find Currently Playing Track 1.3.2  Queue List 1.2.1  Add to Library on Play 1.0.1  Tree Report for Child Nodes 1.1.1  Update Location of Files in Database 1.4.3/2.2.2  Inherit Child Playlists 1.0.2  Add Currently Playing/Selected Track(s) to Playlist 1.1.2
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby Dope On The Table » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:45 pm

If mediamonkey would present you 100 extra fields to tag it would be in mediamonkey only, the compatibily between other players and also other taggers who enter info in to global databases like freedb are lost and are not usefull anyway for you,

What you want is take control of your own tags and in the mean time when you play them in your mp3player or other you have the same control of your selection but limited to a lesser tagfields

i Wrote a wishlist on the the topic on "Universal script for nonscripters to judge your mp3" that would fix this problem

I hope there is a programmer inspired to create the industry standared for mp3 judging like the technics sl1200 was for spinning vinyl
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby RobertSmith » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:56 am

ZvezdanD wrote:
RobertSmith wrote:By the way, I could create filter to limit display only for tracks that have one of 10 most used genres, but such node cannot display other tracks. Well, I could create another node for the rest of tracks and put those two nodes in the same group, but you need at least two masks for this. Still not sure if this is what you want.
Something like this:

Level 1 - Showing the 5 most common - Genre1, Genre2...Genre5 in 5 different folders and one folder containing songs with other genre
Genre1 (565)
Genre2 (435)
Genre3 (400)
Genre4 (350)
Genre5 (250)
OtherGenre (600)

Level 2 - Showing folders with songs that have at least 2 genre: Genre1 and Genre2/3/....12 (if only one Genre => Genre1)
Genre1 (565)
--- Genre1 (click on this to show songs with only Genre1)
--- Genre2
--- Genre3
--- Genre4 (click on this to show songs with Genre1 & Genre4)
--- Genre5
--- Genre6
--- Genre7
--- Genre8
--- Genre9
--- Genre10
--- Genre11
--- Genre12
Genre2 (435)
Genre3 (400)
Genre4 (350)
Genre5 (250)
OtherGenre (600)
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby ZvezdanD » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:54 am

RobertSmith wrote:Something like this:

I am still not sure if I understand your intention. However, you could try a new update of the Magic Nodes script which I think could resolve this problem: v2.7 - 2009-06-29
- Added: Multi Artist, Multi Album Artist, Multi Composer, Multi Conductor, Multi Lyricist, Multi Genre, Multi Tempo, Multi Mood, Multi Occasion and Multi Quality fields (e.g., the <Artist> node could have two sub-nodes "David Bowie" and "Queen" for the song "Under Preasure" , but the <Multi Artist> node would have only one sub-node "David Bowie; Queen" for the same song) [MM3]. This is especially useful if you have multi-item genres and want to get the nested display of nodes with genres and sub-genres using Split by/Split part qualifiers, for example:
Code: Select all
Genres and Sub-Genres\<Multi Genre|Split by:;>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:1>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:2>)
Magic Nodes 4.3.2/5.1 RegExp Find & Replace 4.4.8/5.1  Invert Selection/Select None 1.5.1  Export/Create Playlists for Child Nodes 4.1/5.3.6  Expand Child Nodes/Expand All 1.1.2  Event Logger 2.7  Filtered Statistics Report 1.6  Track Redirection & Synchronization 3.4.2  Restore/Synchronize Database 3.1.7/4.0  Find Currently Playing Track 1.3.2  Queue List 1.2.1  Add to Library on Play 1.0.1  Tree Report for Child Nodes 1.1.1  Update Location of Files in Database 1.4.3/2.2.2  Inherit Child Playlists 1.0.2  Add Currently Playing/Selected Track(s) to Playlist 1.1.2
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby RobertSmith » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:51 am

ZvezdanD wrote:I am still not sure if I understand your intention.
The Intention is that is difficult to construct a genre tree. There are a lot of suggestions/opinions out there, e.g. The Discogs Style Guide is a good example. But to utilize it I have to save Discogs Genre in for instance Grouping or in Custom1, but doing so I'm "hardcoded" to Discogs style guide. So my idea was to save all genre incl. styles like "Disco" in the genre field and then let Magic Nodes build up the Tree. Since the main genre is included for every song the end result will be the same as if I had stored them in a separate tag/field. For Every title I have 3-6 genre/styles stored in the multi-item genre tag, so there is enough for a 2-3 level Magic Genre Tree. I have approx. 25 000 MP3 but only a small part is in MM since I still is evaluating this product :).

This is an example using 2 different nodes. The example is not the best (only 9 albums), but if you look at genre Hip Hop you can see that I in total have 67 songs with genre Hip Hop but but only 31 that is both Hip Hop and Electronic.
Image

1:Node (automatic)
Code: Select all
My Sorted Genres\<Genre|Sort by:Count(All) Desc|Show sort key:0|Statistic:Count(All)>

2:Node (Top level - Electronic - is hardcoded)
Code: Select all
<Group|Name:My genres and sub-genres>\Electronic|Filter:'; ' || Songs.Genre || '; ' LIKE '%; Electronic; %'|Statistic:Count(All)\<Genre|Sort by:Count(All) Desc|Show sort key:0|Statistic:Count(All)>

What I looking for is to merge node 2 with node 1 (automatic)
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby ZvezdanD » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:32 am

RobertSmith wrote:What I looking for is to merge node 2 with node 1 (automatic)

Did you try the new update of Magic Nodes script (2.7)? I think that it does exactly what you want using the following mask:
Code: Select all
Genres and Sub-Genres\<Multi Genre|Split by:;>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:1>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:2>)

So, if you have multi-item genre like "Hard Rock; Heavy Metal; Speed Metal" you would get three node levels:
Code: Select all
+ Hard Rock
   + Heavy Metal
      + Speed Metal
Magic Nodes 4.3.2/5.1 RegExp Find & Replace 4.4.8/5.1  Invert Selection/Select None 1.5.1  Export/Create Playlists for Child Nodes 4.1/5.3.6  Expand Child Nodes/Expand All 1.1.2  Event Logger 2.7  Filtered Statistics Report 1.6  Track Redirection & Synchronization 3.4.2  Restore/Synchronize Database 3.1.7/4.0  Find Currently Playing Track 1.3.2  Queue List 1.2.1  Add to Library on Play 1.0.1  Tree Report for Child Nodes 1.1.1  Update Location of Files in Database 1.4.3/2.2.2  Inherit Child Playlists 1.0.2  Add Currently Playing/Selected Track(s) to Playlist 1.1.2
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby RobertSmith » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:07 am

ZvezdanD wrote:Did you try the new update of Magic Nodes script (2.7)? I think that it does exactly what you want using the following mask:
Code: Select all
Genres and Sub-Genres\<Multi Genre|Split by:;>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:1>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:2>)

So, if you have multi-item genre like "Hard Rock; Heavy Metal; Speed Metal" you would get three node levels:
Code: Select all
+ Hard Rock
   + Heavy Metal
      + Speed Metal

Yes I did the update, but I must be blind the only multi genre I could find was this one:
Code: Select all
<Group|Name:Multi-item tracks|Show tracks:No>\Multi-genres|Icon:Top level|Filter:Songs.Genre Like '%;%'|Statistic:Count(All)\<Genre|Statistic:Count(All)|Sort by:Count(All) Desc|Show sort key:0>

With following result
Image

Edit:
With some cut and paste (using above code), Had too remove the last ) I mange to do this one, Here we go.... ;)
Image
Last edited by RobertSmith on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby ZvezdanD » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:18 am

RobertSmith wrote:Yes I did the update

Did you added the mask which I mentioned?
Code: Select all
Genres and Sub-Genres\<Multi Genre|Split by:;>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:1>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:2>)

After that you should get one new node with the "Genres and Sub-Genres" caption on the bottom of the Magic Nodes branch.
Magic Nodes 4.3.2/5.1 RegExp Find & Replace 4.4.8/5.1  Invert Selection/Select None 1.5.1  Export/Create Playlists for Child Nodes 4.1/5.3.6  Expand Child Nodes/Expand All 1.1.2  Event Logger 2.7  Filtered Statistics Report 1.6  Track Redirection & Synchronization 3.4.2  Restore/Synchronize Database 3.1.7/4.0  Find Currently Playing Track 1.3.2  Queue List 1.2.1  Add to Library on Play 1.0.1  Tree Report for Child Nodes 1.1.1  Update Location of Files in Database 1.4.3/2.2.2  Inherit Child Playlists 1.0.2  Add Currently Playing/Selected Track(s) to Playlist 1.1.2
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby RobertSmith » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:26 am

ZvezdanD wrote:Did you added the mask which I mentioned?
I did it now, see previous post (you r to fast). I will look into it, thank so much!!!
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby RobertSmith » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:23 am

ZvezdanD wrote:
Code: Select all
Genres and Sub-Genres\<Multi Genre|Split by:;>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:1>\<Multi Genre|Split by:;|Split part:2>

After that you should get one new node with the "Genres and Sub-Genres" caption on the bottom of the Magic Nodes branch.
It works perfect! No need to store Main Genre in Custom1, 2nd in Custom2 etc. This works perfect in combination with Auto-Tag from web (genre from Discogs).

The down-side is that you have to:
  • store genre in "correct" order. Top genre most be first in the multi-filed followed by 2nd, 3rd etc.
  • titles can only be find in one place
I don't if it possible, but it would be nice to compare this structure with a structure based on frequency where the top level are the 10 most common genre, 2nd level the most 10 common genre what also have same genre as level 1 and so on... (I guess 3 level is enough).y
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby Guest » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:05 pm

Just a note on situations when I thought this would be cool and how I'd have liked it.

I have very, very diverse music genres, including World Music, so I also tag the country of origin in "genre" (only if it is a distinguishable style). When I got the second or third Ethiopian CD, of course I tagged something like "World;Ethiopian" or "Rock;Ethiopian". Then I have an Eqyptian and an "Arabian Folk" CD and "North African" CD and so on. Looking at these CDs I wish there were an (optional) hierarchy of genres (or tags, generally) so I could tag Ethiopian as African, Eqyptian and North African as African or even both African and Arabic. BTW, same goes for Drum&Base->Electronic and so on. This way I could search for "African" and find all corresponding countries, or for Electronic or Brass Music and so on. Tagging "Ethiopian" only I'm afraid I will overlook that too often.

Of course I could do that manually and without formal hierarchy: "World;Ethiopian;African" but FIRST you need to be very disciplined and its a lot of work and SECOND a programmed/programmable hierarchy would be the basis for AUTOMATIC hierarchy tagging: In the tag hierarchy dialogue I define that Drum&Base is a sub-genre of Electronic, Ethiopian is a sub-genre of African and so on.

It works on an existing music collection with one click and structures everything. E.g. I never used African as a tag until I got the North African CD - now I'd have to go back to all my other music from Africa to tag them with "Africa" to make my searches for related music easier and that's quite some work! The same is true for musical styles.
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby mattisse » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:40 am

Guest wrote:Of course I could do that manually and without formal hierarchy: "World;Ethiopian;African" but FIRST you need to be very disciplined and its a lot of work and SECOND a programmed/programmable hierarchy would be the basis for AUTOMATIC hierarchy tagging: In the tag hierarchy dialogue I define that Drum&Base is a sub-genre of Electronic, Ethiopian is a sub-genre of African and so on.


Totally agree. That's the reason why I'd prefer a preset hierarchy over just tagging a song with multiple genres. With a preset hierarchy you don't have to remember what top genres you have previously used for a certain sub genre. And you would have to enter only one value in the genre field instead of 2 or 3.
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby Pete Sykes » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:13 pm

Here's how I do it...
Rock (Progressive)
Rock (Classic)
Rock (Shock)
Metal (Power Groove)
Metal (Doom)
Metal (Experimental)
Country (Traditional)
Country (Modern)

In the Genre Categorize section they are organized well this well this way.
With out a way to Sub-Genre I see no other way,there is DOZENS of different TYPES of Rock...shock,classic,progressive,hard,soft,sludge,punk,southern,ect...

Hope this helps.
Pete Sykes
 

Re: SUB GENRES

Postby kmenzel » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:35 pm

The way I do it is to tag genre as like "Rock: Punk Rock", or "Classical: Romantic / Sonata / Piano".

This lets me use auto-playlists to generate a fairly comprehensive genre hierarchy myself...

I can search for genres containing say "Rock" - which will also pull "Pop: Pop Rock", or add the colon i.e. "Rock:" which would exclude sub genres with similar names. With the classical genre, I do all my sorting via Period / Type of Piece / Sub-type of piece if applicable (ie Mass / Requiem) / Instrument of Piece (if the instrument is applicable), which lets me do things like create a play list of all symphonies, or do a quick search through organ motets... and I can eliminate say "Piano Pop" out of a search for Piano pieces by searching for "/ Piano" instead of "Piano", so that works pretty well...

When I sync to my iPod, I synch the root folders of my genre hierarchy playlists - so like, "Rock", "Pop", etc. - and avoid synching the nested playlists - that way in "Playlists" I have a few custom playlists, and then easy access to broad genres of music, while all the sub genres appear in the "Genre" menu. So far my only problem has been deciding how to categorize certain fringe elements of my collection... especially certain classical stuff. Not sure if my scheme is helpful to anyone, but it's been working great for me, in and outside of Media Monkey...
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Re: SUB GENRES

Postby barnburner13 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:30 pm

as an anal organizer of music....I want sub genres so bad...It drives me nuts not being able to break it down to more specific details
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