MM Cloud

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MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:16 pm

I'd love to see MediaMonkey embrace the changing online world and move away from a client app and more towards a cloud version or at least a version we can install on our own servers and run from anywhere (which would include our phones, tablets, laptops, etc.)

Take the registration income and move to an online model. Put ads on the site (they generate more revenue than you can imagine but make them for things related to the music).

For me, I noticed I almost never use MediaMonkey anymore. Why? All my music is now in Google Music and I have Spotify. Between them I've got access to all my music and all music in general. The only thing I'm using MM for is editing my files. Sort of sad that that's what it's being reduced to. Nothing, in my view, is better at that but it just too inconvenient to bother with it otherwise.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Lowlander » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:10 pm

Nooooooooooooooooooo...

I don't mind the ability to play music from one of the cloud services like Google Music or Amazon or even being able to manage them, but MediaMonkey doesn't belong in the cloud. Here I wish these services would provide plugins to the MediaMonkey community to access their services.

MM4 with DLNA already moves MediaMonkey towards the server capability with the ability to access the Library from any DLNA capable device and also the ability to control it. Theoretically it can be used over internet despite that DLNA is designed for LAN. There's also MonkeyTunes and Android control for iOS/Android.

I do think it would be nice to run MediaMonkey directly on NAS's so no PC is required to have access to the music via MediaMonkey and maybe with multi-OS support it might be possible. For now MM4 has portable mode which makes things a little more flexible although you'll still need Windows to run it.

Also the ability to access you music in MediaMonkey via web would be a very nice addition to MediaMonkey.

Lastly when storing music online you're going to run into the Music industry and will probably have to pay license fees or get sued.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:35 pm

Sorry, but I have to say I think this is a very dated view. Today we have Gmail leading the way, Netflix, Office is now online and many, many more.

Ever single time I upgrade my PC it's apps like MediaMonkey that give me fits as each one has their own quirks about how to re-install them and the registry scenario makes it very likely you could lose everything (which I've done twice before). Meanwhile my cloud apps I just re-install and once the browser's up I'm home free. Nothing to remember. No precautions. No worries. No care for where I am. No concern about platform.

Moving towards server capability in 2011 is like suggesting we should be excited about a car that takes unleaded gas. That's already happened and we've missed the boat.

Your listing of the things that would be nice to have is exactly the point of why I put this up as all of them are addressed with a cloud app and I'm not suggesting it replace the client but be an option in addition to it.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby r0k » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:40 am

I just hate it when my applications are located somewhere else than on my computer.
I don't trust clouds. Big online locations may be more secured than home computers but there is always security breaches in a system and since they are so more tempting for hackers than home computers the question is not if they will be hacked but when.
I like to keep my stuff under control and what's not on my computer is not under my control.
The more we move to the cloud, the less we actually own our stuff.
MM is fine on my computer and i hope it will never move away.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:52 am

....because our music information is loaded with things like credit card information, etc..... No, actually it isn't. No decent system should be that way.

I come from a background of online development (ultimately after years prior doing client-side application development) involving transactional data (online payments and such) and no thought-out music system would need to put anything at risk other than very simple account information. Your data could still all be local if that's what you choose. It could all be on DropBox if that's what you choose. It could all be on whatever server you choose.

I'm not exactly petrified at the idea that hackers would break in and steal (which means copy in this case) my totally unoriginal copy of Air Supply's, "All Out Of Love" FLAC file.

That said, again, is it really that hard to conceptualize the concept of having both approaches as an option? No one is suggesting that the client go away.

For a related example, go look at what's going on in the wider world of music services. One of the hot apps out there is Spotify. Now google Spotify reviews and you'll see one of the biggest complaints they get is a complete shock from new users (or would be users) that they don't have a web app. Try to imagine Pandora as a client app only. People would laugh them off the market. They have both. Client apps for specific phones but always, underneath it all, a web app running the show.

Do you ever listen to the radio or do you only play music on a physical device? Why doesn't it bother you that the music coming over the air via the radio isn't physically residing at your fingertips? It's almost the same thing. The only difference is that you "own" a limited subset of specific songs to play at your leisure. Why does this distinction mandate that, the only option for doing so, is with a PC-based solution?

Have you not considered the countless editorials lamenting that we may be on the cusp of the death of the PC? Tablets have outsold laptops now and laptops were outselling personal-use PC's. A web app would mean I could get to my music on the PC, on my phone, on any tablet. It would be future-proof.

This fear of the future is, in my view, doing nothing but asking to be left in the dust as the rest of the world changes around MM. No thanks. If that's the approach that sticks here then the Google Music-like approaches are going to slowly (at first, but then quickly) drive MM into oblivion and then where will we be? Without any solution as MM has a very limited recurring revenue model and as interest slows so will their ability to keep up. You'll end up with a PC running Windows X from years ago as MM would likely cease to work with one of the newer versions (Windows is even starting to go to the cloud a bit with Windows 8 for crying out loud) and a dwindling group of users trying their best to come up with all sorts of work-arounds to keep it going. Don't believe that? Go look at countless examples of that same scenario in other areas.

Trust me on this part. In a few years we're going to see this process having a heavy impact and an ever-increasing number of posts begging for a solution and when people ask why this happened they're going to find a few threads like these with people who were emphatic that the world stop spinning.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby nohitter151 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:56 pm

Forget about privacy concerns, etc. The main problem is if I want to play music but can't because my 'cloud' service is down (see amazon etc., this happens all the time).
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:09 pm

I keep getting excuses that are limited entirely to the cloud. My music is on the cloud. I have no problem playing my music at any time. Why?

1. Spotify can play any of my own music locally and keep it local.

2. Google Music can also work just fine with music both on the cloud and taken from your local drive.

3. I have all my music locally as well!

What I'm talking about here is for those times when I want access from work, or from a friends house, or while at a vacation spot, or in the car, etc., that having SOME option (even if it's not 100%) is better than NO option.

You're telling me that you think it's no problem for people to go installing MM at every friend's house, getting their DB over, not to mention the songs, doing that at work, etc? Come on, these arguments are really paper-thin guys.

It's like arguing that you're never going to drink water again because that one idiotic woman killed herself drinking too much water trying to win a Nintendo Wii. Please, stop taking the extreme position which isn't even relative to what I stated.

You know what I don't have? (be nice) I don't have a great MM-like tool to work with that music. That's the piece I'm missing right now and I firmly believe some of the others are going to continue developing their products to a point where it won't matter any longer.
Last edited by Agrajag on Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby nohitter151 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:11 pm

Agrajag wrote:You're telling me that you think it's no problem for people to go installing MM at every friend's house, getting their DB over, not to mention the songs, doing that at work, etc? Come on, these arguments are really paper-thin guys.

No, don't be silly. But I don't see how the portable mode on an external drive wouldn't suffice.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:29 pm

So how, while I'm at a friend's house for a week, do I get access to MM from that external drive to edit a few files, create a playlist, etc? What I'm suggesting is, for more money, having access to MM via a cloud app that knows where my music is and bring to bear all its functionality.

Again, playing my music isn't the issue here. That boat has already sailed and MM wasn't on board. I'd like to see it not miss the next boat and provide something it excels at before it runs the risk of being entirely obsolete or, at the least, viewed as not worth the hassle.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby nohitter151 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:30 pm

Agrajag wrote:So how, while I'm at a friend's house for a week, do I get access to MM from that external drive to edit a few files, create a playlist, etc? What I'm suggesting is, for more money, having access to MM via a cloud app that knows where my music is and bring to bear all its functionality.

Again, playing my music isn't the issue here. That boat has already sailed and MM wasn't on board. I'd like to see it not miss the next boat and provide something it excels at before it runs the risk of being entirely obsolete or, at the least, viewed as not worth the hassle.

You install the portable version of MM right onto the hard drive, where the music is...
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:23 pm

I'll have to read up on this one. I don't see it referenced on their site and the wiki doesn't really explain it either.

Is this just the full MM is some sort of way or a totally different build? Are there limitations?

At least it's an option which is better than where I thought we might be.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Lowlander » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:28 pm

It's a new option for MediaMonkey 4, currently in beta, which allows you to install it as a portable application. Thus it is self contained and can be taken to any PC. Just install it on a portable drive along with your music and on any Windows system you can use MediaMonkey with your music.
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:15 pm

Okay, but that's not feasible for the uses I have in mind where installing things locally won't be the best option (other people's equipment and them feeling it might be risky). Plus that would require Windows and won't work on a tablet, etc.

Is it additional designed to work on a drive here and allow me to access it from, say an Android tablet and access the music it has access to?
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby nohitter151 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:06 pm

Agrajag wrote:Okay, but that's not feasible for the uses I have in mind where installing things locally won't be the best option (other people's equipment and them feeling it might be risky). Plus that would require Windows and won't work on a tablet, etc.

Is it additional designed to work on a drive here and allow me to access it from, say an Android tablet and access the music it has access to?

Have you never heard of a portable program? It's just a specially designed program so that all settings, etc. are stored in one place (eg. where installed on a flash drive/external drive so it can be run from any windows OS.)
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Re: MM Cloud

Postby Agrajag » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Many programs these days don't need "portable" versions because they were bright enough to never buy into the Windows Registry BS Microsoft peddled ages ago. Those who did ended up realizing what a bear it is to do anything with their apps aside from a Microsoft-approved install type.

Anyone that's used Gmail over Outlook, Thunderbird, Eudora, etc., all knows this. And there the items are all free and yet they're still being abandoned in droves for the cloud. How many more times do we need to see another post about another user that lost all their setup info because all they did was change systems or re-installed the OS? You wouldn't accept a phone these days that forced you to live with that limitation and yet here every apology is being made.

And I understand what you meant but clearly you didn't understand my requirements. Having a a program I need to install (no matter how small or innocuous) will not in any way match the flexibility of a web app.

Explain how I'm to run this portable version on a tablet at a hotel. Will it run on my Android phone?

It sounded like this might meet the need but now that we're digging into it just a layer deeper it seems clear it's not in the ballpark of what I'm talking about.

So I revert back to my original comments. I would like to see MM avoid a freight train of abandonment by keeping up with the blatantly clear evolution that's going on in development and access. All the excuses in the world about why some kludged work-around or complex solution that isn't a real solution isn't going to help. There's a reason MM has remained a fringe product and my fear is that this thread speaks volumes as to why that is. I'll cross my fingers that the developers themselves actually have some vision on this or else in 5 years we're all going to be posting notes like "Remember MediaMonkey?"
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