Automatic BPM detection for FLAC

andysaul · Post by **andysaul** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:14 pm

In fact, for all formats, but I store everything in FLAC. This means I can't use the MixMeister BPM detector that works with mp3.

The BPM should be stored in the BPM tag if it is blank.

Perhaps this could be added to the Gold edition?

Post by **Lowlander** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:38 am

This has been requested a long time ago. Back then the developers said they were considering to add it. So far it hasn't been added.

andysaul · Post by **andysaul** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:06 pm

Yeah, I saw that it had been requested.

However, I could not find anything beyond the wishlist request and the MixMeister workaround.

I understand that the BPM algorithm is not the most simple thing to implement, but it is a fairly well-solved problem these days. The source format shouldn't matter as it is the audio that is analysed.

Is there a list somewhere that tells you which items are scheduled for the next release?

Post by **Lowlander** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:16 pm

No, there are no lists available. But if you regularly read the forum you get a decent idea. Sometimes promised features don't show up though.

Post by **Peke** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:22 pm

Lowlander is right unfortunatly.

Sometimes as much as we like to furfill everyones promisses there sometimes it can't be possible. Like most FLAC, OGG problems as there is Issue to Vorbis Comment Specifications and if we change them much (like ALBUM ARTIST issue) we can produce not needed bugs (Again ALBUM ARTIST Tag field and COWON Portable players problem) which then take even more time of dev team to solve another issue/bug.

Note: This is only One issue, I'm counting >3000 issues that are disscusted, added, worked appon. That is way of developping. One more thing I didn't count here and it is Commercial Part Of whole project and race with other simmilar project Apps. It is great to have this community of users which help each other in solving problems, that means much for one app.

Post by **rusty** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:29 pm

To give a bit more background on this. We actually did implement this functionality, however, it didn't work as well as it should and so we shelved it, with the intent of looking into it again sometime in the future.

With each release we look through the list of issues on the wishlist, bugs on the bug forum, and other bugs/features in our internal database, and triage them, trying to decide which ones we should tackle given the current state of our knowledege.

Occasionally, this means that items that we'd thought would be tackled sooner are tackled later.

-Rusty

Tylast · Post by **Tylast** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:16 pm

@ Peke - I totally understand your point. I guess it would help if the STANDARD were upgraded. I guess I need some support on the topic:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=41594

Thanks!

andysaul · Post by **andysaul** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:14 am

OK, looks like I've hit on a different issue here, i.e. there is no innate BPM tag for FLAC/ OGG.

However, this isn't an issue for me because MM lets you use other tag specifications in the media library. I have a BPM field for every track, even if it is stored in the database rather than in the audio file itself.

The main issue for me is the BPM detection itself. You say that development was started on this and then shelved. Is there a project I could look at? Perhaps I could contribute...

Cheers,
Andy

Post by **Peke** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:37 pm

Tylast,
Sorry, to inform you but last time I made such thing available in MM when added ALBUM ARTIST in FLAC(Jiri in OGG) appon users Suggestion just because it was easy to implement.
Reference
Link1
Reference
Link2
Reference
Link3
Reference
Link4
We just need to be more carefull if we want to avoid such things in future. I'm not saying that it will be not included but as we stick to recomended than more apps should add/recomend such adds.

Post by **Peke** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:49 pm

andysaul,
The Idea is to make decent BPM calculator (Math Algorythm) Which is the most difficult part, and then make UI for it. I know I have been DJ for >10 Years and only BPM Counter 100% Accurate I know is Blinking LED on DJ Mixer and My Ears listenning song over and over. There was one BPM Calculator in Winamp I think it was called Carot BPM that was do some good stuff but it was Shareware.
The only APP(not saying that some other do better, as this is based on my own oppinion and needs) I have found that do decent BPM calculations is MIXVIBES as it have that visual+hearing part beside pure Math.

Tylast · Post by **Tylast** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:52 pm

Peke - Yeah, the standard really needs to be expanded. How about going over to that link & voicing it there to help out? I can't fight that one alone.

andysaul · Post by **andysaul** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:48 am

I understand that BPM detection will never be 100% accurate, but there are very good detectors around for beat-oriented music.

For example, Ableton Live, MixMeister and my Numark CD decks all have good beat detection. In all cases, you can overeride the algorithm by tapping along to the music. In the software cases, there are buttons that mulitply the detected rate by 2 or 0.5, because the algorythms often get it wrong by a factor of two. I have never seen a BPM detector that works for any time signature other than 4/4.

I am looking for a BPM detector that works automatically for most songs. If it gets it wrong, no problem, I can edit it as I do now. However, I don't really want to edit 400 CD's worth of songs by hand.

I'm thinking that it might be quicker to help develop a plugin than do the editing. Is there a project I can look at?

Post by **Peke** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:43 pm

I know your problem. The best thing will be to make BPM Calculation based on Track Genre as we know what genre have what BPMs.
Unfortunatly there is no project assigned to MM regarding BPM, but anyone willing to try is welcome.

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:53 pm

As a potential work around, a quick question...

Do 'virtual cd' tracks update their main library library files?

For example, if andysaul sent all or a subset of his libray to the virtual CD, then ran MixMeister bpm detecter on them, would it update the metadata for both the virtualcd files and the flac files in the library?

andysaul · Post by **andysaul** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:51 am

Thanks for the suggestion, Teknojnky, but I only seem able to create previews in WMA (is that a valid MixMeister format?) and the MixMeister detector I have just produces a list of BPM's that still need to be inserted by hand.

What I am looking for is some kind of batch processor that looks in Media Monkey's database for files that haven't got a BPM value and sets a 'best guess' value from a BPM detection algorithm.

I had a look on the Developer tab at Media Monkey, it seems that I can choose from scripts, winamp plugins, localization or skins. I don't think a winamp plugin would do the trick because it would have no access to the MM database. So it looks like I'd have to use a VB script that calls an external process to detect the BPM. Is this right?

Once more, I would be most grateful if anyone could point me towards a project where work has already been started. If there isn't one, can someone tell me how to start it?

Andy

Automatic BPM detection for FLAC

Automatic BPM detection for FLAC

Promises