Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

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kugel.
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:48 am

Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by kugel. » Fri May 30, 2008 6:57 am

I mainly talk about these:
TSOA - Album sort order
TSOP - Performer sort order
TSOT - Title sort order

These are used for sorting the album in e.g. lists.

The idea of these tags is to replace the artist with performer sort order, album with album sort order and title with title sort order when it comes to sorting.

This is powerful for artist which begin with an article, like The Who or Die Ärzte (Die is a German aticle) The performer sort order tags should look like "Who" and "Ärzte" respecively. In lists, The Who would show up under W, and Die Ärzte under A/Ä.

I know Media Monkey ignores "The" by default. But this is highly specific to the English language. With these 3 tags the user cannot only decide how to sort exactly, it's also possible to be multi-lingual.

I've tested it with "Die Toten Hosen", and they still show up under D. That's why I'm under the impression that these tags are unsupported.

I'm not entirely sure how MediaMonkey handles ID3v2.4 in general. It seems that it writes tags in v2.3, but can read v2.4 tags.


Please support these tags. They're very handy.


NOTE: There are similar tags for AAC and Vorbis as far as I know, which even support artist sort oder AND album artist sort oder (ID3v2.4 only has 1).

Macarena
Posts: 618
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Location: Prague, Czech republic

Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by Macarena » Sat May 31, 2008 3:07 am

kugel. wrote:This is powerful for artist which begin with an article, like The Who or Die Ärzte (Die is a German aticle) The performer sort order tags should look like "Who" and "Ärzte" respecively. In lists, The Who would show up under W, and Die Ärzte under A/Ä.

I know Media Monkey ignores "The" by default. But this is highly specific to the English language. With these 3 tags the user cannot only decide how to sort exactly, it's also possible to be multi-lingual.
Options -> Library -> Appearance -> Ignore prefixes.... Does this help? Me, having there "the,der,die,das,a,az" (no quotes, no spaces, only commas) works perfect

bgibbard
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:09 pm

Post by bgibbard » Sat May 31, 2008 6:21 am

That doesn't help with getting artists to sort by last name though. My single biggest wish for MM is that it would support the sorting tags.

kugel.
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 6:48 am

Post by kugel. » Sat May 31, 2008 8:59 am

Those sort tags are more powerful and flexible than any hackish automatic ignoring "solution".

Also, it has been said, they don't help when you want to sort by last name of an artist.

Those sorting tags were introduced, so that a media player doesn't need to do dirty workarounds.

Lazlo Nibble
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:15 am

Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by Lazlo Nibble » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:18 pm

I agree that MM ought to support these frames. I hate the hackish workarounds that you have to use to get correct sorting behavior...

spacefish
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Location: Denmark

Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by spacefish » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:34 am

Totally agreed on the sortname options. I do believe that something is planned for this in the future though couldn't pinpoint a precise comment.
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grommet
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by grommet » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:51 am

FYI. The following tags have been wedged into the 'de facto' standard ID3v2.3, as well as the DOA ID3v2.4, thanks to Apple and iTunes:

Title Sort Order = TSOT
Artist Sort Order = TSOP
Album Sort Order = TSOA
Album Artist Sort Order = TSO2
Composer Sort Order= TSOC

Mp3tag was updated last year to support this 'popular' custom tag usage. Yes, for both ID3v2.3 & ID3v2.4. So, if wanted, MediaMonkey could implement usage of these tags for MP3/ID3 and not have to create incompatibility by forcing usage of the ID3v2.4.

DazB
Posts: 409
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Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by DazB » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:11 am

Hi,

I can't see sorting being implemented in the short term as there would need to be significant changes required in the source code. As MM will only read/write a fixed set of tags you would need to write the strings into one (or more) of your Custom fields and remap these using an external tagger.

I haven't played with any kind of custom nodes, but would have thought that they could be a solution for presenting properly sorted lists.

Daz

grommet
Posts: 21
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Re: Some ID3v2.4 are unsupported/unused

Post by grommet » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:50 pm

I personally think this is pretty low on the 'must have' scale. Anyway, this is likely a 'feature request' and not a bug report for MediaMonkey.

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