"Album Artist" Tag

To get bugs in the current release fixed, please report them here.

Moderator: Gurus

nohitter151
Posts: 23640
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:20 am
Location: NJ, USA
Contact:

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by nohitter151 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:24 pm

tommycrock wrote:
JoePublic wrote:I find the Album Artist tag very useful and wish MM would not change pre-existing values.
Ditto
Sorry, I don't understand this statement. If album artist is already filled, MM does not automatically fill it.
MediaMonkey user since 2006
Need help? Got a suggestion? Can't find something?

Please no PMs in reply to a post. Just reply in the thread.

khelsing
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Germany

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by khelsing » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:45 pm

nohitter151 wrote:If album artist is already filled, MM does not automatically fill it.
For some people an empty string might be a desired pre-existing value. It certainly is for me.

nohitter151
Posts: 23640
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:20 am
Location: NJ, USA
Contact:

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by nohitter151 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:24 pm

khelsing wrote:
nohitter151 wrote:If album artist is already filled, MM does not automatically fill it.
For some people an empty string might be a desired pre-existing value. It certainly is for me.
And it stays empty. It only fills if you open the properties window and hit "OK" (as it is pre-filled when you have something in the Album field and you open the properties window).
MediaMonkey user since 2006
Need help? Got a suggestion? Can't find something?

Please no PMs in reply to a post. Just reply in the thread.

khelsing
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Germany

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by khelsing » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:41 am

nohitter151 wrote:And it stays empty. It only fills if you open the properties window and hit "OK" (as it is pre-filled when you have something in the Album field and you open the properties window).
That's not what I experience with 4.0.3.1463.

If I open the properties window the following happens:

1) If "Album Artist" is empty, MediaMonkey fills the field with the content of "Artist".
2) Hitting OK or "Update & Next/Previous Song" does neither write the pre-filled content to the corresponding tag in the file nor to the database, not even if I cycled through the fields with the tab key.
3) The "Album Artist" tag is only written to the file and the database if I edit the field in the properties window (i.e. change, add or delete at least one character).
4) When moving on to the next or previous tracks in the properties window with "Update & Next/Previous Song (Alt-Right/Alt-Left)" the "Album Artist" field is never again pre-filled with the content of "Artist".

This behaviour IMO is inconsistent and very confusing.

tommycrock
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:13 am

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by tommycrock » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:08 am

nohitter151 wrote:Sorry, I don't understand this statement. If album artist is already filled, MM does not automatically fill it.
Looking back, I think me and JoePublic are talking at cross-purposes to the rest of the thread, which I think is about the auto-infer that MM can do when it first adds a track to the library. We (well I at least) were talking about the automatic change that gets made to album artist when you edit artist, even if album artist is already filled, something I'd like to be able to turn off.

khelsing
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: Germany

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by khelsing » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:32 am

tommycrock wrote:We (well I at least) were talking about the automatic change that gets made to album artist when you edit artist, even if album artist is already filled, something I'd like to be able to turn off.
With version 4.0.3.1463 that only seems to happen if all "Artist Album" and "Artist" fields of an album have the same content. Although in such a case this behaviour might make sense, I agree that it should be optional (and personally I would turn it off).

BKKKPewsey
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:45 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by BKKKPewsey » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:01 pm

IMHO the issue with the auto changing the artist field is not really a problem unless you are editing a single track.
If selecting multiple tracks eg a complete album and then edit via track properties MM duplicates the changes made to the artist field into the album artist.
That only occurs if the existing album artist matches the artist and does not occur if it doesn't, so your compilations with album artist set as various for example do not change.
Also because there is an enable update check box, it can be disabled from updating if you do not want the album artist to change.
However if you are editing a single track the check box is not offered yet the same thing occurs - this, I believe, is wrong.
If you have one track on an album with say a feat artist you do not want (well I don't) want the album artist for that track to change.
The other issue, in single track mode, is when the album artist is not present but auto filled in (inferred) in the properties window.
This is what I believe khelsing was referring to: Simply put if you need to edit a single track eg change title etc when you move to the next track or hit ok to finish the album artist field is not updated.
So I find that when editing a single track via the properties panel, when I want the album artist field to update (eg no album artist tag info but correctly inferred by MM) it doesn't. and if I don't it does :(
If the single track mode also had the update file checkboxes available then we could then control and force MM to update the tags that we wanted.
Last edited by BKKKPewsey on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Everyone has the right to be stupid Image but some abuse the privilege

tommycrock
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 9:13 am

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by tommycrock » Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:32 pm

It would make sense to me if you were editing all the tracks of an album together, for it to auto-change album-artist (though I personally wouldn't want this). BKKKPewsey explained the problem I come across, adding a featured artist or making a single song by a different artist. And for such a 'take control of your tags', customisable and all round powerful program the behaviour continues to surprise me, leaving me with mis-tagged tracks that are orphaned from their album.

Jake Ames
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:18 am

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by Jake Ames » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:16 am

nohitter151 wrote:
Jake Ames wrote:khelsing - I posted about this a few years back and invoked the wrath of the forum as they didn't get it either. The point I had tried to make was not that MM used the Album Artist tag but that by default it did exactly as you have noted. No other id3 tagger of which I am aware automatically autofills the album artist field in the same way MM does.

I can't find the thread but Rusty also posted on the similar topic maybe 2 yrs ago (?) noting the 'pecularity' was really not in compliance with the original id3 tagging convention (but as of today so much liberty has been taken, there is little convention left). It was on a to fix list.

So onto the tag behaviour I did not realize this was what MM ws doing in particular to compilation or tribute albums, until I tried to queue one up to play and realized there were ie 20 'albums' to queue when I thought there was just one. It was more than annoying when it got down to me needing to spend hours, a lot of them, to retag music that should not have needed the extra attention. Once I understood how MM was creating its tags (not why just how) for similar compilation albums I put in something meaningful like the name of the album to keep it separated from the ubiquitous 'Various Artists'.

It would be good if there was a choice to autofill or not.

cheers, jake
It doesn't automatically fill the tag, unless you open the track properties and save the edit.
Sure it does -- without the user saving anything.

If you present to MediaMonkey a freshly ripped album that has the basic elements of the ID2 tag filled, Album, Artist, Track#, Title, Genre and maybe Album Art, MM will fill in the Album Artist. If this is a Tribute Album with multiple Artists and you have tagged each song by the Artist covering the track, as many Albums as there are Artists gets created. You now would have to select all these Albums (as designated with Album Artist), if you wanted to play the full album.

That is against convention and unfortunately common sense. The workaround is to either add a tag outside of MM that calls the Album Artist something meaningful to that album, or when in MM select each of these tracks and edit Properties to make the Album Artist something specific. If you have a lot of Tribute or Compilation albums just calling these Various Artists loses a lot of specific sorting ability so really it is the case that MM forces one to edit Album Artist as that is fairly key to MM's sorting.

This has been the case since pretty much day 1 and may even be a carry over from Song DB. As long as one knows this is the behaviour going in, the edits can be made so that the Album Artist is not empty or has something the user wants in there before MM touches it.

cheers, jake

theta_wave
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:54 am

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by theta_wave » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:19 am

Jake Ames wrote:Sure it does -- without the user saving anything.

If you present to MediaMonkey a freshly ripped album that has the basic elements of the ID2 tag filled, Album, Artist, Track#, Title, Genre and maybe Album Art, MM will fill in the Album Artist.
That is certainly the case in most instances. For example in 4.0.3.1466, I imported several ripped albums the other day. The ripper left the <album artist> field blank. After importing them all at the same time, most but not all had their <album artist> field filled by MM. It is a pain when sort my collection largely by summary or album artist. I had to use "regexp find and replace" to copy the artist field to "album artist". I don't recall such inconsistent behavior in Mediamonkey 3. Then again, Mediamonkey 3 automatically read the the artist field if the album artist field was blank.
MM Gold Lifetime since 2.5.5.998
Computer: Lenovo Y580 System: Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1 / Arch Linux Mediamonkey 4: w/ Monkeyrok 5.6, Minilyrics 1.4b, iMonkey Skin

JoePublic
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 11:43 am
Location: Fenton, MO

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by JoePublic » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:49 pm

I inadvertently posted on this topic again at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =1&t=64260 , but wanted to point to that post here since I developed my argument more fully there. Since I just upgraded to MM 4 a few days ago, this issue has been refreshed in my brain. So, apologies for the double post.

Jake Ames
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:18 am

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by Jake Ames » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:59 am

JoePublic wrote:I inadvertently posted on this topic again at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =1&t=64260 , but wanted to point to that post here since I developed my argument more fully there. Since I just upgraded to MM 4 a few days ago, this issue has been refreshed in my brain. So, apologies for the double post.
You are absolutely correct in what you have posted. The behaviour of autofilling the Album Artist like this in a way that MM relies upon it for its Album list is not conventional within music managers and is one of the annoyances it has. The work around is to always make sure Album Artist is filled (I use MP3Tag) outside of MM. Then it works just fine.

Enough said of that - even with that nuance, MediaMonkey 3.25 beats anything out there for all its functionality in managing music.

cheers, jake

mcow
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:35 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by mcow » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:37 pm

I hadn't, yet, noticed this change in behavior in MM4. Yes, this really is a problem, for exactly the reasons JoePublic describes in that other topic.

BKKKPewsey
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:45 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by BKKKPewsey » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:26 pm

Just an observation on the difference with regard to the latest beta [1470]
If you change the artist tag in track mode it still changes the album artist tag :(
However if you do the same via the properties panel - it doesn't. So if you want to edit the artist to add a feat artist then that works :)
This IMHO makes the situation worse when you are editing multiple tracks via the same panel.
If you are changing all the tracks of a particular album for example "Beatles" to "The Beatles" you now have to edit the album artist as well.
So again when I want the album artist to stay the same - it changes it and when I want it to reflect the artist field - it doesn't :-?
Everyone has the right to be stupid Image but some abuse the privilege

tonicindian
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:00 pm

Re: "Album Artist" Tag

Post by tonicindian » Wed May 09, 2012 5:11 pm

qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
Last edited by tonicindian on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply