Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

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debacle

Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by debacle » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:05 pm

I looked into using something like Shoutcast and others, as well as SqueezeCenter's built-in internet radio broadcaster, but they all have delays of several seconds. To get instantaneous changes, I opted for a digital cable from PC to stereo, rather than buy a SqueezeBox.

Robbie123
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Robbie123 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:48 pm

debacle wrote:I looked into using something like Shoutcast and others, as well as SqueezeCenter's built-in internet radio broadcaster, but they all have delays of several seconds. To get instantaneous changes, I opted for a digital cable from PC to stereo, rather than buy a SqueezeBox.
A cable is the obvious and cheap solution and I've been using this for some time. However, its ugly and old-fashioned in this age of mobility where netbooks, wifi and bluetooth rule. In exchange for mobility, I would rather prefer a slight delay.

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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Peke » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:50 pm

I must agree with debacle, as Purity of Lossless playback of 192Khz/24Bit Stereo(5.1Ch in some cases) so Wire Optical is must for High-End and/or Audiophile.
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po4599
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by po4599 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:27 am

Perhaps I can suggest another solution that would provide the best of many worlds in our music environment. I've been using MM for over a year now, and primarily use it to maintain my music library.

Has anybody considered just adding the SqueezeCenter capability directly into MM? The primary function of SC is to maintain a library and to serve its contents to various players. While the original capabilities were developed by Logitech, the code and all of the protocols are in the public domain and can be utilized by anyone. Even the code itself is available in source code form.

To illustrate what I'm suggesting, let me first describe my current environment. I have a 100gb music library with 1000+ albums that I manage in MM. These are stored on a server in the basement. On this server I run SC, which serves the music to various clients. In my case my client happens to be Winamp (streaming through stream.mp3) on that same server, with audio redirected via digital wireless to a WMB54G located in my living room audio system. To decide what music to play, I use an iTouch with the iPeng software (really new stuff that works great). So my wireless iTouch (or iPhone) is used as a remote control to play music from my entire library directly on my audio system, with cover art, genres, and internet streaming sources all being available on my iTouch screen. Everything is wireless using cheap off-the-shelf components (except the iTouch, which isn't cheap ;->).

But the details aren't important. I could have used a SqueezeBox as a player. Or SqueezePlay. Or various new devices that are appearing continuously. I could have used a Linksys SqueezeCenter remote. The reason all of this works is because the protocols between the devices are all public. As is the source for many of them, especially SqueezeCenter.

So the suggestion is to build the SqueezeCenter capability directly into MM. Since MM already manages the library, all that would be needed is the player and remote interfaces. And since all of this code is available in source form in the public domain, there is only a MM integration task (with the appropriate references to the GPL to give credit). I believe such as solution would satisfy the various requests I've seen on this thread.

-Peter

Simon Chick
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Simon Chick » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:30 pm

Sounds brilliant to me!

What do the developers think?

squeezemonkey

Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by squeezemonkey » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:37 am

After reading the various use cases and scenarios in this thread, I think I agree with po4599. In my case I actually quite like using the SB Controller to control my playback from my couch, while using MM on my PC in my office to maintain my library. My biggest concern with having two devices controlling playback (and two independent databases) is that play statistics, AutoPlaylists, and the like aren't synchronized between the two databases. I am using ZvezdanD's "Export M3U/Playlists for Child Nodes" script to export my playlists to a folder that SqueezeCenter is monitoring. This manually gets me part of the way there, but it could be much better if there was a common database between the two using a native MM plugin instead of a standalone instance of SqueezeCenter.

I'd actually be happy with these two ideas:
-If playback is initiated solely from my SB Controller then have play statistics synchronized to my MM db (I have a lot of AutoPlaylists based on playcount, play date, etc)
-Not having to remember to manually export/sync my playlists, and then tell SqueezeCenter to rescan (you can schedule this, but only once per day)

And these are pipe dreams:
-Initiate playback on my SB receiver from MediaMonkey, and have the Now Playing information synched to my SB Controller
-More tightly integrate the SB Controller into MM - maybe even use it to control playback of MM in synch with my receiver?

gpzbc
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by gpzbc » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:20 am

Please!
This would be great!
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Berg
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Berg » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:33 am

squeezemonkey wrote:After reading the various use cases and scenarios in this thread, I think I agree with po4599. In my case I actually quite like using the SB Controller to control my playback from my couch, while using MM on my PC in my office to maintain my library. My biggest concern with having two devices controlling playback (and two independent databases) is that play statistics, AutoPlaylists, and the like aren't synchronized between the two databases. I am using ZvezdanD's "Export M3U/Playlists for Child Nodes" script to export my playlists to a folder that SqueezeCenter is monitoring. This manually gets me part of the way there, but it could be much better if there was a common database between the two using a native MM plugin instead of a standalone instance of SqueezeCenter.

I'd actually be happy with these two ideas:
-If playback is initiated solely from my SB Controller then have play statistics synchronized to my MM db (I have a lot of AutoPlaylists based on playcount, play date, etc)
-Not having to remember to manually export/sync my playlists, and then tell SqueezeCenter to rescan (you can schedule this, but only once per day)

And these are pipe dreams:
-Initiate playback on my SB receiver from MediaMonkey, and have the Now Playing information synched to my SB Controller
-More tightly integrate the SB Controller into MM - maybe even use it to control playback of MM in synch with my receiver?
I am a BIG fan, REALLY BIG fan of MM, but the one thing that always keeps me wondering or looking for other solutions is my SqueezeBoxes and server.

MM is the absolute best for managing my library, for creating smart playlists, for listening to music from my desktop, for creating an offline database of my library and recent acquisitions, and most importantly, to sync my Ipods/Iphones. The ONE huge drawback is a lack of "comon" play stats, playlist, etc. with my SB which is the absolute best solution for in-home/multi-room lisenting. LastFM and LastFM DJ are fantastic, smart playlist are brilliant but they miss out on most of what I listen to at home.

So, integration or sharing information between the two databases would be the ultimate solution !!!

charm5scott
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by charm5scott » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:36 pm

I am a total novice with using Monkey Media so please be patient while reading my tale of woe. I bought a Squeezebox Duet for my wife (who is a near computer illiterate as far as media players and Squeezebox goes) to play our library (MP3, WAV, etc) over our stereo system. However the Squeezebox Server software does not allow to you to manage the library at all (as far as reclassifying artist, album, genre) and it doesn't recognize all media files like Windows Media Player and Monkey Media do. I have little problem in making playlists using the Squeebox server but she is not a patient person when using computer software and can't manipulate the playlists as well. We called Logitech for advice and they recommended MM to solve our problem (but didn't tell us how to use it).

My question is "How do you make the Squeezebox Duet select a library managed by MM?"

Can MM dynamically be used with Squeezebox server such that changes made on MM to the libary show up instantly on the Squeezebox?

Thank you for feeling my pain.

DC
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by DC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:42 pm

charm5scott wrote:Can MM dynamically be used with Squeezebox server such that changes made on MM to the libary show up instantly on the Squeezebox?
Thank you for feeling my pain.
I feel your pain. And I felt it years ago because we all have that same problem. But not much has changed and as of now there is no perfect way of managing music in MM and playing it with a Squeezebox without maintaining two libraries and all the drawbacks explained by Berg. There are some workarounds which you may have found on the forum already. There is an SB remote control via MM's now-playing, an export of playlists to SqueezeCenter, and an export of the MM library incl playlists to an iTunes library xml which can be imported by SqueezeCenter's iTunes plugin (that's the workaround I came up with). Those exports will not really support autoplaylists though, the exported playlist is not dynamic anymore in SqueezeCenter.

http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=21124
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=41477
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=31680
squeezemonkey wrote:I'd actually be happy with these two ideas:
-If playback is initiated solely from my SB Controller then have play statistics synchronized to my MM db (I have a lot of AutoPlaylists based on playcount, play date, etc)
-Not having to remember to manually export/sync my playlists, and then tell SqueezeCenter to rescan (you can schedule this, but only once per day)

And these are pipe dreams:
-Initiate playback on my SB receiver from MediaMonkey, and have the Now Playing information synched to my SB Controller
-More tightly integrate the SB Controller into MM - maybe even use it to control playback of MM in synch with my receiver?
Statistics sync is some work. You have to juggle SqueezeCenter's mysql/sqlite db, MM's msaccess db (if that is still used), and analyze and bridge the schemas, and find a way to match songs in both. Once you are there you could just as well sync almost everything directly on the database level. Regarding the playlist export, you can use my iTunes export script for that (linked above). It exports the MM library incl (auto)playlists once per hour and IIRC SqueezeCenter picks that up more often than once a day. Regarding "initiate playback on SB from MM", there was a solution posted (also linked above) but it hasnt worked for me.
po4599 wrote:Has anybody considered just adding the SqueezeCenter capability directly into MM? [...] So the suggestion is to build the SqueezeCenter capability directly into MM. Since MM already manages the library, all that would be needed is the player and remote interfaces. And since all of this code is available in source form in the public domain, there is only a MM integration task (with the appropriate references to the GPL to give credit). I believe such as solution would satisfy the various requests I've seen on this thread.
That's an interesting idea, Peter. Although... some years ago I was about to laying the foundation for that. I started making SqueezeCenter remote controllable via COM which in turn can be used by MM's vbs scripts. With that it should be possible to fully control SC from MM. However, the project died with my motivation. It would been half way only anyway because it would not have helped with controlling MM from an SB.

Implementing what you are suggesting would effectively replace SqueezeCenter. SC's plugins could not be used then, and services like firmware updates etc would not be available. Plus, it is a lot of work. Also, I am not sure if the interface between SC and SB is really that well documented. I am afraid that all we have is a bunch of Perl files which would have to be reverse engineered. Personally I cannot be bothered to read much Perl sources, MM's visual basic is already tough on me. I believe the best way would be to create an SC plugin which adds an MM menuentry to SBs with the usual stuff (browse and play MM's library). But that SC plugin would have to be written in Perl. Volunteers...? ;-)

po4599
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by po4599 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:04 am

That's an interesting idea, Peter. Although... some years ago I was about to laying the foundation for that. I started making SqueezeCenter remote controllable via COM which in turn can be used by MM's vbs scripts. With that it should be possible to fully control SC from MM. However, the project died with my motivation. It would been half way only anyway because it would not have helped with controlling MM from an SB.

Implementing what you are suggesting would effectively replace SqueezeCenter. SC's plugins could not be used then, and services like firmware updates etc would not be available. Plus, it is a lot of work. Also, I am not sure if the interface between SC and SB is really that well documented. I am afraid that all we have is a bunch of Perl files which would have to be reverse engineered. Personally I cannot be bothered to read much Perl sources, MM's visual basic is already tough on me. I believe the best way would be to create an SC plugin which adds an MM menuentry to SBs with the usual stuff (browse and play MM's library). But that SC plugin would have to be written in Perl. Volunteers...? ;-)
Peter (po4599) here... Thanks for the comments DC. Yes. replacing SC is exactly what I am suggesting. I've been using SC for a while now and the only useful SC plugin I've found is the one that automatically rescans my entire library at 3am to force a re-sync with MM's library. The motivation is merely to play MM's library through SC's clients (SB and SP). For example I use the iPhone app iPeng to select what music to play. Works great. Anybody that wants all the rest of SC's bells and whistles can keep using SC. I do have a good programming knowledge of Perl, as well a reading knowledge of visual basic so perhaps we should take this conversation to email to explore whether this is a small or large effort. Contact po4599 in gmail.

sg60
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by sg60 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:16 am

I have two squeezeboxes and I would love to be able to marry the music management features of MM with the Squeezebox hardware. I totally support this suggestion.

gpzbc
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by gpzbc » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:01 pm

The lack of integration is honestly one of the reasons that I haven't yet bought a Squeezebox. I have no interest in trying to maintain a Squuezecenter database along side my MediaMonkey database.
I hope someone is able to come up with a solution.
Thanks!
Last edited by gpzbc on Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest

Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Guest » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:08 pm

I'm in....and I am willing to pay for an app/plug-in that allowed MM to control/drive SqueezeCenter into my Transporter. I do not want to maintain two databases. Let me know what it will cost.....I will pay.

Simon Chick
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Re: Slimdevices Squeezebox / Squeezecenter Support (Plugin) or D

Post by Simon Chick » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:52 am

I would certainly be willing to pay for an application which let me use MediaMonkey to control the output from a Squeezebox in addition to MM's current functionality.

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