On tagging works by classical composers

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FloppySpatula
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:39 pm

On tagging works by classical composers

Post by FloppySpatula » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:26 pm

I imagine some of you like classical music. Perhaps some even seek out specific renditions or performances of certain compositions by specific artists - Beethoven's 9th by Furtwängler, Bach's Organ Works by Koopman - but while there's a place in a music tag for composer and conductor, there's explicit place for performers. Do you generally tag the performers in album artist and otherwise keep the "artist" tagged as the composer? Traditionally I always use the same tag for Artist and Album Artist since I don't know if changing one will affect the other. I like to try before I buy (unless it's OOP, so I just download), and it'd be great if there were a standard so I could know when I'm downloading mp3s for something that I'm getting the right version.

willyvds
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Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by willyvds » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:47 am

I don't think there's a standard. When I rip a CD, I apply my own "standard":
- album artist = artist = performer, unless it is a collection CD with various artists; then: albumartist = "various artists" and artist = performer
- if there are multiple performers (e.g. orchestra and soloists) I list them all, separated by ;
- composer and conductor field: I use these indeed to specify composer and conductor

Applying my standard means I have to do some administration after ripping a CD. Because very often, the result after ripping is not in line with this. But I feel it's worthwhile doing the work, because now I can easily play all music by a specific composer, conductor or performer.

Regards, Willy

Pete10
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:59 pm

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by Pete10 » Thu May 07, 2009 1:48 pm

Not a hot forum topic, but a reply anyway.

I do mostly the same as Willy, and do the editing manually (usually while listening, or ripping another cd).
(BTW, if I change the attributes of the track that is currently playing I sometimes get a very nasty crack on the speakers, I wish the MM team would change this, perhaps by locking the current file so that it cannot be changed while playing?).

I also found that many people fill in the composer as artist - I hate this.. Also in the freedb database.

I usually only put in the orchestra in the artist/album artist field, unless it is a soloplayer + orchestra, then I put in both.
For multiple artist names I use the musicians field in the second page of the attributes, but only if I think I would ever search for their names (opera singers for instance). As title I decided to use "composer - work" rather than just "work", so that you do not have mixed lists of pianoconcerto's of different composers.
I think the guidelines here are: do not strive for perfection and absolute uniformity, but fill in the attributes that you are going to use.
The things that I find most irritating are albums with multiple cd's (e.g. opera), especially if freedb does not have the track titles stored in the same way for the different cd's. Also picking up album art for classical cd's tru MM and amazon does not work very well, is my conclusion. The album properties are not delivered or only partly to amazon so that you get lots of wrong results or no results. Even if amazon sells the exact album it is often not found thru MM's method.

Pete

Lowlander
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Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by Lowlander » Thu May 07, 2009 1:57 pm

Pete10 wrote:BTW, if I change the attributes of the track that is currently playing I sometimes get a very nasty crack on the speakers, I wish the MM team would change this, perhaps by locking the current file so that it cannot be changed while playing?
Try switching output plugin under Tools > Options > Output plug-ins
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

willyvds
Posts: 382
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Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by willyvds » Thu May 07, 2009 3:12 pm

Indeed: freedb, amazon etc are all quit useless for automatic tagging. If one wants a somewhat consistently managed classical music collection, one has to do a lot of manual administration... ;-(
I find http://www.arkivmusic.com very helpfull for finding classical album art. Also for old CD's, that are not being sold anymore!
Regards, Willy

Solitaire001
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Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by Solitaire001 » Fri May 08, 2009 1:24 am

Although others have already commented, I will add mine. When tagging my tracks (regardless of genre), I use "Album Artist" to indicate the overall artist/act for the entire album (and use "Various Artists" if the album is a compilation/soundtrack that contains many individual acts/performers), while I use "Artist" to indicate the artist/act for that specific song. I use the "Composer" to identify the individual who composed the track.

To illustrate (although it's not a classical album, it will provide a good illustration), using the album "Duets" by Petula Clark. It is an album of duets with Petula Clark where each track features a duet by her with a different artist. I list the "Album Artist" as "Petula Clark" since she is the overall artist for the album. But for each track "Artist" is listed as "Petula Clark And [name of the duet artist]." In the same way, I would list the composer for each song in "Composer."

Related question: When listing multiple composers for a song, what format do you use when listing them (some examples: last names only with the music writer listed first, full names with the music writer first, or the way they are listed in the liner notes)?

Thanks for reading.

willyvds
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by willyvds » Mon May 11, 2009 2:54 pm

There is a separate field for the writer of the lyrics (don't know how this field is called in English). I don't use that though.

I use the full name of the composer, like Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. I don't have that many songs with multiple composers, so I have no standard for that.
You could use the separator, so the song would appear in each composer's overview, like: John Lennon; Paul McCartney

Regards, Willy

Davo
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Location: Australia

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by Davo » Tue May 26, 2009 2:19 am

This is how i set up the tags for most of my classical music. esp multi movement works like concertos, symphonies etc.
I agree that Tags from external sources are pretty useless. Info is rarely in the correct tag & there is no standard naming conventions. Bach can be J. Bach, JS Bach, Bach, Johann. It is time consuming setting up the tags but once it's done the MM database & standard Library views work really well.

This tagging system works pretty well if you have recordings of the same work by different orchestras/conductors.

Example - Mahlers Symphony No 1

Title = 01. Slow Plodding. In the beginning very comfortably
Artist = Frankfurt Radio Sym Orch
Genre = Classical
Album = Mahler: Sym # 1 (FRSO)
Album Artist = Frankfurt Radio Sym Orch
Composer = Mahler, Gustav
Conductor = Inbal, Eliahu

I use a separate Library filter for Classical Music. This way i can use the standard Library nodes to easily see all works by artist, composer or conductor.
David
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Philo_Vance
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Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by Philo_Vance » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:38 am

I like the idea of using the Composer and Conductor fields to keep track of those items, but I could not find a way of getting the Player to display them during playback. If there is a way, please tell me.

I include the Composer first in the Album title and the orchestra/conductor/soloists as Artist and Album Artist.

Album: J.S. Bach - Violin Concertos 1,2 & 2 Violins
Artist: Academy of Ancient Music - Hogwood, Schroder
Album Artist: Academy of Ancient Music - Hogwood, Schroder
Track: Concerto No.1 in a, BWV 1041 - 1. Allegro
Genre: Classical
Date: 1982

In this way, the player displays all the relevant information while the track is playing. I also scan the cover art (or try to find it on the net if I don't have the CD) and tag the tracks with it. Then I can display it also while the tracks are playing. I use Eyal's Zekton Dawn skin which is easy on my old eyes and displays everything in the Player.

And it is a lot of work, but you can do it while you're listening. :wink:

k_r_eriksson
Posts: 185
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Location: Gotland, Sweden

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by k_r_eriksson » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:47 pm

Philo_Vance wrote:I like the idea of using the Composer and Conductor fields to keep track of those items, but I could not find a way of getting the Player to display them during playback. If there is a way, please tell me.

I include the Composer first in the Album title and the orchestra/conductor/soloists as Artist and Album Artist.

Album: J.S. Bach - Violin Concertos 1,2 & 2 Violins
Artist: Academy of Ancient Music - Hogwood, Schroder
Album Artist: Academy of Ancient Music - Hogwood, Schroder
Track: Concerto No.1 in a, BWV 1041 - 1. Allegro
Genre: Classical
Date: 1982

In this way, the player displays all the relevant information while the track is playing. I also scan the cover art (or try to find it on the net if I don't have the CD) and tag the tracks with it. Then I can display it also while the tracks are playing. I use Eyal's Zekton Dawn skin which is easy on my old eyes and displays everything in the Player.

And it is a lot of work, but you can do it while you're listening. :wink:
The player shows what the maker of the skin wants. You can make a player show this:
  • %A – Artist
    %R – Album artist
    %L – Album
    %S – Song
    %P – Playlist position
    %I – Song position
    %H – Song length
    %J – Time to play
    %G – Genre
    %C – Author
    %U – Custom1
    %V – Custom2
    %W – Custom3
    %E – Songs file extension
    %F – Filename
    %Y – Year
    %T – Song order
    %B – Bitrate
    %M – Songs BPM
    %D – Temporary order

    Available in Alpha 5 and newer builds;
    %Cn - custom field (n must be between 1 and 5)
    %PC - current track in playlist
    %PT - total tracks in playlist
Author is composer so that can be shown by editing the skin but conductor isn't possible.

k_r_eriksson
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:26 pm
Location: Gotland, Sweden

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by k_r_eriksson » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:48 am

I'm working on a script that can show tags in a panel.
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=41823

This will work great with classical music.

k_r_eriksson
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:26 pm
Location: Gotland, Sweden

Re: On tagging works by classical composers

Post by k_r_eriksson » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:16 am

The script is released. It can show many more fields then the player can.

http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=41882

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