MediaMonkey forum

Lowlander wrote:

Dreadlau wrote:Wouldn't this be more convenient?

No, because now I need to go through a list of thousands of tracks to see which track plays next.

I don't follow you. All you would need to do is to click on " # " to see which tracks is next. ( Btw you really keep thousands of tracks in the now playing queue?! )

Lowlander wrote:

Dreadlau wrote:And there could be a "make the sort order = to playing order" entry in the context menu for users who needs this.

Although this would work it makes it a 2 step process for something that should be a 1 step process. The Now Playing is a playing queue and should be treated as such. The fact that some want to sort for looking around shouldn't make sorting for those who are sorting playback more hassle. You could add the Now Playing tracks to a Playlist and sort away in this case.

You're right. I guess it's a matter of how you manage your now playing queue.

Dreadlau wrote: All you would need to do is to click on " # " to see which tracks is next.

Which would reset the sort order back, thus undoing the sort. This is why it wouldn't work.

Dreadlau wrote:you really keep thousands of tracks in the now playing queue

Currently yes, but normally not, but others do. Anyway the issue would still be there if you have less tracks as you would need to scroll through the whole list to find the next track. So unless you keep only a few tracks in the Now Playing this would be a big hassle.

fyi, the issue is covered at bug #5165, but we never prioritized it, because it's unclear what behavior is preferable. As you've discussed:

Option 1: Sort NP affects play order by default
==> 1-click re-ordering, but causes accidental re-ordering that requires extra clicks (undo) for re-ordering
==> Tracks added subsequent to the sort aren't sorted (which means that feedback is required to indicate that a sort occurs, but such feedback shouldn't persist)
==> It's inconsistent with the Playlist UI

Option 2: Sort NP sorts display order only (and not play order)
==> Multiple clicks to sort and re-set play order based on the sort
==> More standard UI that's consistent with the Playlist UI

I lean towards option 2, but it also has it's cons.

-Rusty

In regards to bug #5165, the way it works now is expected behavior for me.

Thank you for the feedback rusty.

rusty wrote:What would be expected is behavior identical to that implemented with Playlists:
-Sort by any column --> Tracks are displayed in a different order, but PlayOrder is not changed (i.e. numbers in the Play order column become out of order)
-Sort by Play Order column --> tracks are displayed in the order in which they'll play
-Right click to Play Order column > Update Play Order / F5 --> Play order is changed.

I totally agree with you!


And I vote for option2.

Dreadlau wrote:Thank you for the feedback rusty.

rusty wrote:What would be expected is behavior identical to that implemented with Playlists:
-Sort by any column --> Tracks are displayed in a different order, but PlayOrder is not changed (i.e. numbers in the Play order column become out of order)
-Sort by Play Order column --> tracks are displayed in the order in which they'll play
-Right click to Play Order column > Update Play Order / F5 --> Play order is changed.

I totally agree with you!


And I vote for option2.

I like this approach too, as it's more consistent with playlist sorting and also makes the # column more useful.

I still disagree. Sorting should directly update play order. Indicator should be shown until it is no longer true (like adding file, manual reordering of files).

I as indicated by my last comment, I agree with Lowlander. Playlists and the Now Playing list serve two different purposes, thus I don't see why they must function the same way. Play lists show you the list of tracks associated with that playlist, and gives you the ability to arrange them in the order that you would like, to play later. Whereas the purpose of the Now Playing list is in part to show you what is going to play, and in what order. The exception to that of course is Shuffle mode (though that's expected when you turn on such a feature).

Say we have Shuffle off and a Now Playing list with tracks by Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Christina Milian & Lady Gaga (in that order). With the Britney Spears track playing, it would be expected that Miley Cyrus plays next as she's next in the list. Instead, I sort by Artist, thus making Christina Milian the next track in the list. I would certainly expect the Christina track to play next, instead of it jumping over her and playing Miley Cyrus.

The proposal that the list should be sortable without affecting the play order, in my opinion, breaks part of the intended functionality of this portion of the program. Granted, under the proposal you could change the sort order and then apply the changes ala Playlists, but I see this as adding an unecessary step to allow it to function how it should.

Again, Now Playing and Playlists are two different things and provide two different functions. If this change goes through to make it more like Playlists, should Track Browser, Show Art and Current Search be enabled/changed to match that of Playlists too?

Mizery_Made wrote:I as indicated by my last comment, I agree with Lowlander. Playlists and the Now Playing list serve two different purposes, thus I don't see why they must function the same way. Play lists show you the list of tracks associated with that playlist, and gives you the ability to arrange them in the order that you would like, to play later. Whereas the purpose of the Now Playing list is in part to show you what is going to play, and in what order.

I disagree, IMO they serve nearly the same purpose. Both are lists of tracks to be played. Both are lists of tracks, both are rearrangeable.

For me, it makes sense to use the # column, because I would never want to change playback order in now playing based on sorting by a column. I just can't ever see a situation where that would be something I used on purpose, only something I could accidentally do and mess up my playback order. However, if these changes were to extend to rearranging tracks via drag and drop within the NP list, then I would be against that, because then dragging and dropping I would really be intending to change the play order.

nohitter151 wrote:because I would never want to change playback order in now playing based on sorting by a column.

I think the same reason users sort on Album etc in an Auto-Playlist. Some users do want to play tracks sorted a certain way and the column sort provides this. I think it's wrong that the Now Playing with is the queue of tracks to be played doesn't show in order which track is to be played next (unless in Shuffle). Unless Shuffle is enabled the next track down from the playing track should be the next track to be played.
Sitting on the other side of the fence I don't really see why you need to sort the Now Playing if it isn't to change playback.

Lowlander wrote: Sitting on the other side of the fence I don't really see why you need to sort the Now Playing if it isn't to change playback.

I was thinking more in terms of accidental sorts. But then again if you wanted to quickly see if a certain album or certain artist was in the NP list (or even a certain track), sorting would allow you to more quickly find that info without changing play order.

But it would break the main function of Now Playing which is a play queue. The function of Now Playing isn't to find tracks, thus any features to make this possible shouldn't disrupt the main purpose of being a play queue.

If you're fine with proposing the 2 step Sort, Apply Sort I see no issue with using the 2 step Sort > Undo Sort instead and thus not adding an extra step to maintain the main purpose of Now Playing.

I have no problem with Playlists using a 2 step process or if consistency with Now Playing is important making it use Sort > Undo Sort so Sort is directly applied. Actually Undo on Playlists would be nice as it would add additional Undo options (like undoing added/removed tracks).

Another difference is that on 1346 search on Current Selection isn't working on the Now Playing node (not sure if it's intentional or a bug) whereas it works on Playlists.

I also think the option to disable left click sort and then have it available on right click in the context menu (sort on this column) would be nice. This would prevent accidental sorts and still have quick access to sorting without having to enable it (multiple column sort would still require the enabling of it).

Lowlander wrote:But it would break the main function of Now Playing which is a play queue. The function of Now Playing isn't to find tracks, thus any features to make this possible shouldn't disrupt the main purpose of being a play queue.

But what if you want to see whether a particular track is already in the NP queue or not? This only makes it easier

nohitter151 wrote:This only makes it easier

by making a main function more difficult.

nohitter151 wrote:But what if you want to see whether a particular track is already in the NP queue or not?

Option 1, sort, then undo sort
Option 2, add to playlist and sort away
Option 3, search current selection (if it's meant to work)

It's not that it isn't possible. It's just that the main function should be less steps in this case.

In regards to the idea that the Now Playing list and Play lists are the same in that they both show what tracks and in which order they will/would be played... there is some truth to that, but the way I see it they're still very different in that respect. Play lists gives you a kind of "sandbox" mode that allows you to play around with the order of the tracks until you have that "Ta-da, it's perfect" moment when you have it in the right order for when you want to play it. Meanwhile, the Now Playing list is a "live" list of what is being played and when. I think the time for "fine tuning" this list is long since past since it's already playing (and if it's not, why not just use a Play list?). Therefor, I think any changes that would be made would be "on-the-fly" changes. Be it D&D or sorting on a column. And if this is to affect sorting on columns to bring it in line with the Playlists feature, it should also extend to D&D.

It's not as if the first proposal doesn't provide the ability to back out of an "accidental" change, as it would introduce an Undo feature. I personally see the Undo function being the more sensible approach to this "problem". As for the point that sorting would allow you to see if a track or album has been added to the Now Playing list... there is a Search feature which provides that ability.