Page 1 of 1

Volume analysis by ghostly hand, or is it just me?

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:00 pm
by hintergrundrauschen
MM seems to do weird volume analysis stuff, it seems improbable but I have no other explanation at the moment. This happened several times but not always, so it's hard to reproduce.

The option "automatic volume analysis" is turned off, as always, I start the analysis manually when I want to. Per album analysis and leveling options are checked. "Update id3 tags when changing properties" is checked.

I add a couple of new albums (folders containing mp3s) to the library that contain no volume leveling information. But at some point later I notice that e.g. two of the albums show a track volume leveling entry in the respective colums of the library and playback windows. When I open the "properties" dialogue for one of those files, the field says "No". When I open Mp3tag and look at all tag fields, there are no corresponding tags! For one specific example, only one single mp3 file contained the tag "REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN": the only one file I previously played in MM and that I rated (i.e. that triggered the tag update). But that track also shows a "No" in the MM properties, like all other. This also proves, that the leveling information did not come from outside MM before importing the file into MM.

When I manually start volume analysis, everything is fine.

BTW, the track volume level information is not always accurate: when I manually start the analysis, much leveling info is correct, but quite a few are off just some 0.1 steps (1/10 db). This is even more weird.

This happened to music both from friends as well as my own CDs ripped with EAC (having volume leveling turned off in EAC). I checked all files' tag info using mp3tag before adding them to MM. Is there maybe some hidden info, or is MM malfunctioning?! :-?

Image

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:09 pm
by Davo
No it's not just you but for a while i thought it was just me.
I've had a very similar problem since Feb 2008. Always when i rip with EAC.
In my case if you look at the Track Properties info for a single track there is no levelling value but if you select "Edit properties for Multiple Tracks" there are values in the levelling field.
What is also odd is that sometimes if i delete the tracks from the library then rescan them - the values for both single & multiple tracks show "Not Calculated" which is what i expected the first time - However if you select the "Track Value" column it still displays levelling values for each track.

This seems like a major bug to me so I've just submitted a ticket to support.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:32 am
by jiri
It could be somehow related to the fact that Replay Gain isn't present necessarily only in a single tag in MP3 (ID3v2), but e.g. in so called Lame Info tag. However, that doesn't explain, why you see values in tracklist, but not in Properties dialog. Maybe I have an idea though: MM shows track leveling in Properties dialog _only_ if there is also known Peak Sample from the audio file (i.e. MM can apply clipping prevention). This small inconsistency will be fixed in the next release.

Thanks,
Jiri

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:20 am
by Davo
Jiri - Is this fix in 1173 what you are referring to
4669 Fixed leveling coeffcients aren't shown in properties dialog in some cases
If it is it still doesn't solve the main problem. There shouldn't be any coefficients in the first place. If as you suggest MM is picking up data from the audio file then it shouldn't be because i'm not applying any normalising/levelling or Replay Gain in either EAC or MM. If i look at the mp3 file properties in another player, say Foobar it doesn't show any coefficients.

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:59 am
by jiri
If MM shows some coefficients, it definitely found something in the mp3 track. It can come from several sources:

-TXXX replaygain_track_gain frame
-RGAD frame
-RVA2 frame
-Lame Info tag

Other apps possibly don't show all of them?

Jiri

Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:48 am
by hintergrundrauschen
Thanks for the answers and thanks for the bug fix.

You are right about the tag sources, Jiri, I was too naive thinking that mp3tag would display all existing tag info - especially LAME tags are not displayed at all (TXXX replaygain_track_gain frame would be displayed, if present).

Audio Identifier gives me the following info about one of the "mysterious" mp3 files:

RG track peak: <not stored>
RG track gain: -4.4dB (determined automatically)
RG album gain: <not stored>
MP3Gain change: <none>

And -4.4db is just the info that MM displays.

(Why is it so difficult to find a tool that displays LAME tag info?! It took me hours to find one, since lame.exe doesn't, LameTag is offline, Mr QuestionMan doesn't, etc.)