What if ALL track info is from completely different track?

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WimYogya
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What if ALL track info is from completely different track?

Post by WimYogya » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:24 am

Don't ask me how it happened, but after a lot of retagging and rescanning some of my tracks - but I don't know how many, got completely messed up with completely wrong track information. All tags and other info belong to a totally different track in the library.
As a result I came across a few strange examples:
- A christmas song by Andy Williams was in fact a track from a Verdi opera.
- A piece of a Mozart symphony was in fact a song by The Beatles.
It looks like some system error made all the field info of a certain track refer to the wrong songID.
Of course I would like to try to understand how these tracks became so completely 'disguised'?

But much more important are my other questions:
1. How can I find out how many and which of my 90.000 tracks are wearing such 'wrong coat': the outside track info is different from the music inside. In other words: is there some filter possible that can really figure out which info corresponds with the correct music?
2. If the track info is about song A, but the content is song B, then is there a way to trace the real song A? And where can I find the correct track info about song B? I can do a track title sort and then I might find another song A or B, but will they be the real ones? Or another one with a misleading outside? Is there another method than playing them one by one? And even playing them is not always enough: if the music is well known I can recognize them, but not if title and/or artist are unknown. So how to find out then?
3. At the moment I am trying to remove the thousands of duplicates that my library contains. But how do I find real duplicates if artist, title, length, size, album, etc are all identical, but the content is 100% different? Any trick to separate the 'false duplicate sets' from the 'real ones'?

Thanks for any help.
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Onweerwolf
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Onweerwolf » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:22 am

Wow, that sounds really sucky. :(

First of all, do the filenames of the tracks still contain the correct information?
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WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:58 am

Nope, apparently the files have been processed - most likely at my order - to be renamed and moved to locations according to their library tags. So if they were wrong ALL is wrong. Then what to do?
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:49 am

MusicIP Tagger does audio finger print for tagging and might be your best bet.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:44 am

What does that mean? Audio finger print?
A guess: Completely analyze the audio structure of a file and compare it with other files?

Any idea how things can have been messed up that much?
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Onweerwolf
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Onweerwolf » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:25 am

WimYogya wrote:What does that mean? Audio finger print?
A guess: Completely analyze the audio structure of a file and compare it with other files?
I believe that is correct.
Any idea how things can have been messed up that much?
That depends on what you have been doing. My guess is that this is ultimately a result of user action. So the only other thing you could is try and go back to see what things you did exactly in what order, concerning everything having to do with tagging. If you can figure out were it went wrong you might also be able to figure out if the erroneous retagging followed a distinct pattern. If you find a pattern then you may also be able to mass reverse the process via said pattern. But I don't know if that is still possible.

I'm guessing you do not have a backup of your music collection?

Another possible solution is this: if you have a database of the collection before it was retagged, you could load that database and export it, for instance, into an .xls file (Excel). Then load your current database and do the same. Among other things this export also gives you info on song length, which is, whereas not unique, a decent way to compare because song length doesn't change. It depends on the size of your library and the number of songs that have the same length how helpful this is. But it may be worth trying.

There may be other or better solutions using exports. There are scripts available that export more information. Depending on what you did between having the correctly tagged database and the falsely tagged database things like volume analyzing and date added may also be used to compare things.
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Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:16 pm

It use an audio finger print (which is unique to the song) and compares it to an online database with information about the songs and then can tag the songs with this correct information.

And yes with the amount of addons and speed you're going it could have easily be caused by that.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:25 am

Will start experimenting with it, once I have cleaned other rubbish and dirt and maybe more or less isolated those 'messed up tracks', then try to find out what is really what...
Thanks.
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:11 am

OK, thanks, will start figuring it all out later
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Trevor
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Trevor » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:56 pm

same thing has happened to me !! did you solve this ?

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:18 am

Not really...
All tips & tricks took a lot of time with disappointing results.
After I noticed that the messed up collections belonged (mainly?) to 4 different artists, so I deleted all their tracks and re-imported them through cd or download.
Incidentally I still come across a nonsense track. So be it. If I like the music and want to keep it, I try to figure out the real track info. If not possible I just call it ● unknown ● and play it.

But I am still curious how this mess was created.
Apparently the internal structure of MM's database was messed up, linking artist, title and other info to the wrong track. No specific pattern could be found (such as cross relations: song A has track B info and vice versa).
It must have happened during some migration process, upgrading MM3 db to 4 or so...
Anyone with a clear explanation or a theory?
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

dr_snuggles
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by dr_snuggles » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:14 am

WimYogya wrote:Any idea how things can have been messed up that much?
got this behaviour once in a while,too.
this may happen when mm finds more tracks having the same sums (calculated if search for duplicate tracks is enabled on add files).
i got some tracks obviously different which were tagged without asking me, i deleted files from library ,drag n dropped em into library to fix it.(the sum is still the same,but data isnt changed,strange).
so after adding just check the duplicate content node in your library or disable dup search in options to avoid.

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:52 am

if that explanation is correct, it sounds like a major bug in MM: such basic mistakes should NOT happen.
any of the developers aware of that bug? and bugfixes on the way?
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

nohitter151
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by nohitter151 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:53 am

WimYogya wrote: any of the developers aware of that bug? and bugfixes on the way?
No, they're not aware of any such problem. If you can reproduce the issue with a certain set of steps, please let them know exactly how.
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Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:05 pm

I've never seen this happen and I wouldn't surprised if I have tracks matching the description.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

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