What if ALL track info is from completely different track?

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WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:39 am

[quote="rovingcowboy"]i thought all these were caused by defraging, but if you got the same thing going on it cant be my defraging every other day [...] and always the same artists are being messed with


@rovingcowboy:
1. i don't rule out defragging being part of the problem - but that simply means that MM did not develop a proper product: defragging applications should NOT affect the structure and the contents of any database.
2. i also have a feeling that certain artists or genres are more vulnerable to being messed up. christmas songs are quite often damaged (a genre) and so are greek songs (which in my system is not a genre but a tag word in the comment field). but many others are damaged as well. i have not been able to figure out a pattern.
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

rovingcowboy
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by rovingcowboy » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:37 am

I mean i thought defrag was messing the files up as they no longer play in any program s they should, and it always seems to be same songs and same spots and same artist version of the song tht is cut off, songs also might be getting messed up do to computer crashing when playing music, i have not ruled that out yet, glad to see theres some help in ruling things out with these errors.
I dont think random can be called a patteren but its randomly happening time wise to the same songs and adding a few now and then.
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:44 pm

I don't know how you've managed to do this. My DB is 9 years old and doesn't exhibit any of those issues despite having gone through many beta versions of MediaMonkey. Worse yet I think you're the only one with this much trouble and because of that I don't know how this could have happened. Problems could have arisen due to Addons (not aware of any causing these problems), user actions (wouldn't know how to accomplish this level of mess), MediaMonkey bugs (but why is it not a widespread issue) or your file system.

1) This one seems to affect a couple other users too, I wonder if an Addon like d_iTunes could be the source. It's something I can't reproduce. Infer File Properties (under Tools > Options > Library) can give some strange results too, but it shouldn't tag with info from other files (unless that info is in the folder/filenames). I prefer to leave it disabled as you can do the same thing manually (thus you're in control) by using Tools > Auto-Tag from Filename. Note that another common source of tag mixup is the use of Auto-Tag from Web on more than 1 Album.
2) Often due to user organizational choices. If you use embedded Artwork this isn't an issue and if you use external Artwork it works best with well tagged files and files organized in Album folders or disabling Scan file folders for Artwork. I prefer embedded Artwork (despite added size) as it is the more secure method (less prone to go wrong).
3) Perhaps a tagging Addon was used that caused this. My Genre's have never been changed by MediaMonkey.
4) Maybe you enabled Stop Time? Does the same happen when playing the song in another Player?
5) Does the same happen when playing the song in another Player?
6) Tagging issues could have been caused by Addons or by user error (like running Auto-Tag from Web on more than 1 Album or Auto-Tag from Filename on many files with different naming configuration). There could be a bug with naming getting messed up (but it could be an Addon too), however this can't be reproduced so far so a debug log would be essential in any tagging mixup to be resolved.
7) What about the large amount of builds for MediaMonkey and the release of MediaMonkey for Android.
8) The issue isn't widespread and at most a couple users have reported similar/related issues. As I said on my 9 year old DB this hasn't happened despite frequent use, use of Addons, loads of tagging and plenty of beta testing. Something very specific (be it MediaMonkey, Addon, PC or user) has happened for you that caused these issues. As they're specific to you it is nearly impossible to figure out what could have caused this as so many variables are at play (many of which are not MediaMonkey itself).


1) If defragging caused the problem (ie. there is an issue with your file system) these problems can be imported into the database anytime you run File > Add/Rescan Files or Folder Monitoring on those files. Especially with audio issues it is an easy test to play them in another player. If you have the same audio mixup it is the files that are the problem. Running them in another Player will also allow you to see if the tag mixup you see in the MediaMonkey database has affected the files tags themselves or not yet.
2) Detecting a pattern would be very useful in resolving this issue, being it the discovery of a MediaMonkey bug or one of the other variables being an issue.

Which Addons do you use and have you used so far? What are the results of playing files in another Player?
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:51 am

@Lowlander:
Thanks for your elaborate reaction - elaborate and detailed as always. But it's too late.
Yesterday I started to migrate my db back to iTunes, in spite of all the disadvantages of that system.
I am really sick of all the experiments, settings, checks, rechecks, research, support questions in MM.
None of the possible causes of my trouble ring any bell. I only use(d) two MM add-ons, the Case and Leading Zero Checker (great) and RegExp Find and Replace (great but complex), plus 2 skins (1 in use). All of the options you mention as possible trouble causers are complete abacadabra to me. Never came across.
And that is one of my main problems with MM: to use it you have to be half a developer/researcher. So many buttons to check and set to get the good result. Desorganized user-unfriendly menus make it a user jungle.
You - as well as the MM developers - seem to blame ME as a user to have messed up the db. That attitude is typical! The correct attitude should have been: if a customer CAN mess up his database MM so badly, something must be wrong in the MM interface. Let's improve it. But no, that does not happen. I must improve it, by long (re)searches.
Well, maybe i DID make mistakes, but I am not aware of any. Not of any mistake you mentioned.
And I don't have the time, the energy and the will to permanently be busy with MM to check flaws, mistakes and trouble.
I just want to USE a media library, not permanently WORK on it!
Thanks again for your 'private' help in the past, but I am 'gone' .
Disappointed.
Bye - and bye to MM.
Wim
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

rovingcowboy
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by rovingcowboy » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:41 am

Sorry to see you go but if its best for you then 'im glad you got the issue fixed.
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

WimYogya
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:21 am
Location: Yogyakarta/Indonesia

Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:49 am

Well, none of the issues mentioned below has been fixed.
But I am no longer willing to be a medical specialist who has to create his own lab and do permanent body research to tell his doctor what is wrong and why.
I expect the doctor to find out where my systems fail and heal them.
The MM doctors don't do that.
Goodluck with your issues. Ciao!
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:58 pm

WimYogya wrote:You - as well as the MM developers - seem to blame ME as a user to have messed up the db. That attitude is typical!
Then you didn't read my reply well as I laid out several avenues of blame. However based on the fact that you're the only one with this much trouble it is a possibility that it is user error, but as mentioned it could also be MM, Addons or filesystem or even a combination of those.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

WimYogya
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:21 am

Just one last farewell message for everyone related to MM to illustrate how weak and mad the db structure is.
In the process now of migrating my library back from MM to iTunes - already came across minimum 7 ridiculous new issues. Will not describe them all, too complicated.
Just four examples:
1.
Before migrating I moved the content of all comment fields to the grouping fields because iTunes uses comments fields (also) to store player/equalizer/other settings. And saved the new tags - very time consuming. But after importing all tracks in iTunes only 10.000 of my 110.000 tunes had a grouping tag! Should have been around 90.000. When reloading the MM database again I found out that most 'moved comments' were still in the same old spot, as comments, not as groupings.
2.
Before importing the tracks into iTunes I wanted to clean up the MM db. It told me that 25.000 (!) links were dead, so I removed them. After that I rescanned the same directory. With the following strange results:
a. About 250 newly imported tracks were labelled as dead links, but were not dead at all.
b. Thousands of tracks appeared as 'existing tracks' but seemed to be older (datestamp) duplicates of newly imported tracks. These thousands were ALL dead links, but were not labeled as such in the dead link node.
3.
Many newly imported tracks appear double, triple, quadruple in the MM track list. Exactly same version, tags etc. If you click one of them to see if it is active or dead, all 2 or 3 or 4 instances will be bold. In fact it is just one occurrence but it appears 2-3-4 times.
4.
A few dozens of newly imported tracks have no info at all, only file size and length and 'date added'. No title, artist, etc. Was not like that in the recent MM db I used till 2 days ago.

Do I need say more to illustrate that you should restructure your product?
This was my last contribution to wake you up.
Do your work - finally!
Bye, MM!
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

Lowlander
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by Lowlander » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:05 am

Sounds like you have done a lot of things all at once including moving files on the PC and stuff.

1) Use the Files to Edit > Unsynchronized Tags node to identify which files haven't had DB values saved to the files (can be because the option to do so is disabled, tag writing is interrupted by user, files are updated multiple times while being tagged or because rights to do so are missing). Select all files and use Tools > Advanced Tag Management > Synchronize Tags. Also how much content do you have in the comment tag? Does iTunes support that much content? How did you move the comment to the grouping tag?

2a Do they play in MediaMonkey?
2b I don't follow, do you have duplicate files on the computer?

3) You are using MediaMonkey 4.0.7 no? How did you import the files?

4) Maybe the files are corrupted. Did iTunes show tags for those files?
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)

WimYogya
Posts: 329
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Location: Yogyakarta/Indonesia

Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by WimYogya » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:07 am

Sorry for your well-meant efforts, Lowlander, but I will not spend one minute more on finding out what happened why in MM.
It has been too much.
Every new action creates new problems.
Then I must enter the cockpit and check/select/reset 239 buttons.
I have given up and am gone.
Thanks again for your help.
Ciao!
Wim - 67 - Dutchman in Yogyakarta/Indonesia
Acer Aspire 6935 - Intel Core 2 Duo P8400, 2.26 GHz, 4 GB Ram DDR3, 320 GB hard disk, 1 CD/DVD-writer, 3 external drives (3Tb + 1Tb + 1Tb) - Windows 7 Ultimate - MM4.0.6.1498 debug and updating if necessary

just_any_1
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by just_any_1 » Wed May 08, 2013 11:05 pm

Add me to the list with the strange errors on tracks. I have been using MM exclusively for many years. Have never used iTunes. Have 2 scripts plus 1 skin only thing I have added.

Some tracks I added yesterday and looked today now have tag info for a completely different artist, album, genre, etc. The only way to see they don't belong is look at the Path which is still correct.

Tried do Maintenance to compact which may even cause the problem to worsen. I do use File Monitor and a full rescan each time I start.

There is no external devices and actually I have not even played a track in a couple of weeks. Only added a couple of hundred in the last couple of days and it looks like every one has different tag data today. Computer has not been restarted, but I did restart MM thinking it may fix the problem.

I guess my only option is to completely delete the database and start over. MM has been very good to me over the years, and I certainly hope this is not a problem that will continue to get worse.

KB

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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by nohitter151 » Thu May 09, 2013 6:42 am

just_any_1 wrote:... and a full rescan each time I start.
Way too many people use the startup scan when it is not necessary. I can't say whether it actually caused the problem or not, but if you aren't making changes to tracks while MediaMonkey is closed, there is absolutely no reason to use the startup scan. So you're wasting time and processing power by re-scanning. And if some outside program is messing with your tags while MM is closed, those messed up tags are going to be imported when you start MM with a startup scan.

I have used MediaMonkey for nearly 7 years and I have never observed such a problem, so there must be something going on that you're not aware of (outside of MediaMonkey) that is changing your tags.
MediaMonkey user since 2006
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just_any_1
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Re: What if ALL track info is from completely different trac

Post by just_any_1 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:29 am

I bought my Gold License in 2004, and MM is the only program I use to edit tags. After my last post, I deleted the MM database and restarted. Took about 24 hours to build a new database. I saw quite a few tag errors that were not in the prev database and fixed them. I have been doing a mass replace of the Occasion tag, doing about 10,000 tracks at a time. Last night I noticed that there were more tracks with incorrect Title, Genre, Artist, Album and track #.

To me this says something in MM is corrupting the database on these mass changes. I am doing another 10,000 today and will see what new problems exist tonight.

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