4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

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bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Hi all,

This thread: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =1&t=76979 concerns the breaking of Wasapi playback in Exclusive mode in MM v.1709. There is a workaround so that you can still get your bit-perfect playback of music, including hi-rez files, by disabling Event mode in the Advanced Settings of the Wasapi configuration window. I had understood that Wasapi was to have been fixed in the update - the one released over the last day or two, v4.1.5.1719. However, there seems a whole other problem. All I am getting sent to my sound card when Exclusive mode is selected, is 44.1KHz, irrespective of whether I play 44.1, 88.2, 96 or 192KHz files. When I checked the Wasapi config, in the drop down menu under the check box for Exclusive mode, the only choices available are:

1. "Auto Choice of Format (per track);
2. 44100Hz, 2 channels 24 bits;
3. 44100Hz, 2 channels 20 bits; and
4. 44100Hz, 2 channels 16 bits.

None of the hi-rez formats are present where they did used to appear in v.1709. My sound card is a Roland Quad-Capture and capable of playing all the hi-rez formats, which it did happily in v.1709. I suspect, therefore, that Wasapi is broken in the latest version on MM.

Unless someone has discovered another workaround, then I might have to downgrade. Appreciate your advice.
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
philw2

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by philw2 »

I just upgraded and noticed some issues with my wasapi output, since 4.1.5.1719. I use WASAPI to pipe bits to my NAIM because I don't want Windows mucking with the sound. Before the WASAPI plugin I couldn't get the quality from MM, so I used a uPnP server to squirt bits the player. WASAPI has been fine until this new release.

I found that I was getting some artefacts in the sound now and then, sort of like digital decoding problems. The source FLAC is clean and my NAIM hasn't changed.

I looked at the MM output settings and the high res formats are still there, for me, so I don't have the problem you're reporting there. I do have all the bit rates/ widths there still.

However I did dick around with the settings, and that seems to have remedied my problem. Unfortunately I didn't note what they were to start with. I tried various things, eventually leaving it on exclusive mode. I've not converted my Naim to 192/24 so I'm running on 96/24. I turned off all the other check boxes there for fades and stuff. I *think* it's now working correctly.
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Hi Philw2.

I have lodged a support ticket and Ludek is having a look at the issue. So far I have tried: replacing the out_waspi.dll with the file from an earlier working version of MMW; installing a portable version of MMW; downgrading to 1709; and now I have totally uninstalled and reinstalled 1719. The problem still persists. Ludek suspects the Windows Wasapi layer on my pc and your success with 1719 seems to indicate a pc related problem. I will look into this further. The irritating thing is that Foobar is having no problems with Wasapi, all hi-res formats are passed through to the sound card unmolested.

I'll report back if I have any luck.

Regards,

Allan
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Still no luck with this. This is a problem on just one of our PCs (unfortunately the main one I use!). Three others in the house and MMW recognises the sample rate ranges for the sound card correctly and in exclusive mode passes through hi-rez files unmolested for the sound card to decode without any problems. MMW on the problematic PC will only send the file in the sample rate active in the Quad-Capture at the time. It doesn't seem to recognise that the sound card can cope with 44.1, 88.2, 96 and 192kHz, and if the active sample rate at the time is 44.1kHz, all hi-rez files are downsampled to that rate before passing to the sound card. The card is not switching sample rates. And when MMW has locked the sound card, it is also locking the sample rate, so it can't be changed in the sound card control panel.

Foobar doesn't have a problem with the sound card and the card switches automatically from sample rate to sample rate with Foobar with both ASIO and WASAPI whenever an audio file with a different sample rate is played.

MM and Roland Support have been unable to duplicate the issue. So it looks like something to do with my PC or WASAPI on my PC. I have uninstalled and reinstalled MMW and the sound card a number of times. I have downgraded MMW to 1708. All with no change. This has got me totally beat!

Appreciate any ideas that anyone might be able to share. This is driving me nuts!

This is an image of the sample rates I expect to see in the drop down menu for WASAPI exclusive mode (as they appear on another PC, and as they appear if I select spdif output from the motherboard on the problematic PC):

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3 ... 39%2125705

This is what I actually get (in this case the sound card is somehow locked at 44.1kHz):

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3 ... 39%2125708

This image demonstrates that a 96kHz file is being downsampled (see the rate specified in the detail window for the audio file and the actual playback rate at the bottom of the Quad-Capture Control Panel):

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3 ... 39%2125706

And here is Foobar playing back a hi-rez file to the same sound card without problem:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3 ... 39%2125704
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Update:

On request, I have sent a copy of a debug report to jiri and he is looking into this issue. The problem seems to be limited to certain MMW->Sound Card (DAC) combinations. Wordfool seems to have the same issue with MMW->Meridian Explorer DAC. At jiri's request, I have sent a query to Roland Support for details on the sample rate query format the Roland Quad-Capture expects from media players. The current query format seems to fail. Will update on any progress.

Regards,

Allan
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Attempting to get some information from Roland for jiri on what they expect in terms of a query about sample rates. So far they have suggested using ASIO and helpfully provided the following:

"It would be great if you could have your customer playback the audio with ASIO. Roland audio interface drivers don't support WASAPI sampling frequency switching of Media Monkey.

ASIO also provides audio in bit-perfect manner, and thus is superior to WASAPI from this aspect too.

Media Monkey as the default supports only WASAPI, so kindly follow below
procedures to let it support ASIO. We confirmed this with our
Ver.4.1.5.1719:

-----
Launch Media Monkey.
Select "Tools" -> "Option" menu.
From the options on the left hand side, "Player" -> "Output Plug-ins",
click "Download more output plug-ins" (Kindly refer to the red oval in
the attached image file "MM_out_plugin.jpg").

Download "ASIO .67 (file name: out_asio(dll)_067.7z)" from the webpage
displayed (You might be taken to the Japanese language page though).

Copy "out_asio(dll).dll" from extracted folder "bin/normal" to
"C:\Program Files (x86)\MediaMonkey\Plugins"
Note that this is default installation location. If the location is
altered then the above path will be different also.

Re-launch the Media Monkey.
Select "Tools" -> "Option" menu again.
From the options on the left hand side, "Player" -> "Output Plug-ins",
select [ASIO output (dll version) v0.67].
Click "Configure" shown on the right hand side.

A window shown in attached image file "asio_conf.jpg" will be shown.
Select "Quad-Capture" in "Device".
Please don't check the "Enable" in "Resampling".

Click "OK", and you're done."

-----

Doesn't help much with the WASAPI issue and I have always found ASIO a bit glitchy, sometimes MM hanging when changing from one song to another. Will persist with Roland and report back.

Regards,

Allan
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Jiri has been working on this for some time and it appears that while MMW plays nice and asks my card what sample rates are available before playing a song, it responds with only whatever sample rate is set at the time, not the whole range. MMW then sends the audio at that rate, even if it means downsampling and even if the card is capable of whatever sample rate the song might be. This may be occurring with other cards/dacs also. Jiri suggests that Foobar works because it may not be asking the card what sample rates it can handle and just plays the file. If it plays, then good, if not, it errors. For testing he has re-worked the wasapi output dll so that it doesn't ask the card, it just plays the song. This is working fine in my setup. However, further work is needed on the dll and the interface so that it makes more sense given the full range of sample rates may not be displayed etc.

So, resolution is on the way, but may take a little longer.

Regards,

Allan
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
bigkid
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:14 am

Re: 4.1.5.1719 Wasapi broken???

Post by bigkid »

Jiri has now updated the wasapi plugin so that it's fully integrated with MMW. There's a new option in the format choice dropdown in Exclusive mode: 'Original track format'. It tries to play tracks without asking the output device whether the sample rate is supported or not. I have tested the plugin and it is working well. The transition between songs of different formats is smooth. You can double click to play a song in one sample rate and then double click another song with different sample rate while the first song is still playing and the rate is changed smoothly and automatically in the sound card. I am not seeing (or hearing) any glitches at all. If I play a sample rate that is not available in my card it doesn't error like Foobar, just plays it in the default 44.1kHz, which is perfect. Seems to be working very well.

Thanks for the effort Jiri!

The new plugin is expected to be rolled out with the next release of MMW. In the meantime, for those who want to jump in and use it, a copy is here

http://www.mediamonkey.com/beta/out_WASAPI.dll

Just close MMW, copy the file to the plugin folder in the MMW application folder and restart MMW.

Regards,

Allan
WASAPI ASIO KERNAL STREAMING BASIC TUTORIAL: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 82#p450582
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