Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

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Pherim
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:40 am
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Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by Pherim »

I also have the problem that with .mp3 files there is always a short audible pause or stutter at the beginning of a new song, for example in live albums. It happens with or without equalizer (see also my problem here) and with every output plugin. However, it does not happen with lossless formats (FLAC, ALAC).
Peke
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Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by Peke »

Hi,
I'm still not being able to replicate, can you send me DL link to one of smaller files on PM?
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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JoeChinnici
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by JoeChinnici »

Peke wrote:Hi,
I'm still not being able to replicate, can you send me DL link to one of smaller files on PM?

Hi Peke,

Hi Peke,

You asked for details. I will give you as much as I can.

1. I have a Windows 10 PC with HDMI output connected to an audio/video receiver which is then connected to a TV, all via HDMI.
2. All of my music files are 44.1kHz/16bit MP3 audio files at 320kbps.
3. I am using the MediaMonkey WASAPI output plug-in with all boxes unchecked (no smooth pause or crossfade), exclusive mode selected and set to SAME AS SOURCE, because I don't want any resampling to occur. Yes, I have also tried the otherOutput Plug-Ins.
4. I have no interest in removing the silence between songs, but I also don't want to add silence between songs either, due to the time it takes for audio devices to lock onto an audio signal.

Okay, so let me explain.

Whenever an audio device (stereo receiver, avr, etc.) is looking for a digital audio signal, it is typically muted. As soon as the audio device sees the audio signal, it determines what type of signal it is (48kHz, 96kHz, 24bit, 16bit, etc.), locks on, unmutes and starts playing the music. In the old days when we were dealing with CD's, this was common for the first track on the CD. For this reason, it became fairly common to put up to 1 second of silence at the beginning of the first track, to give the audio device time to lock onto the signal and begin playing the audio. But the standard time was about .3 seconds, or 300ms for the first track, while the rest of the audio tracks will typically have .2, or 200ms at the beginning of the track. But the first track was most important. Reason being, once the first audio track was playing, the digital audio path was never interrupted, from song to song.

Now that CD's are pretty much a thing of the past, and each track as now an individual file, each time a new track starts, when the old file ends, the digital signal stops, waits for the new file to being, to lock onto the signal and begin playing the audio. So this process happens at the beginning of EVERY SONG. This is a problem when dealing with any live album or album where songs go right into each other. Side 2 of The Beatles Abbey Road album is a great example of this. Mean Mr. Mustard into Polythene Pam into She Came In Through The Bathroom Window. All three could be one song, but they are not. They are three individual tracks, but there is no pause between them. If you try playing these three tracks, back to back, or any live album where the audience continues from track to track, you will notice that one track ends, there is a bit of silence (roughly .5 seconds), and then the next track starts. This is terrible when trying to enjoy an album the way it was intended.

The perfect solution would be for Media Monkey to force the digital audio format of the audio file to continue until a new/different format is presented. So for example, if MM is playing Mean Mr. Mustard, a 44.1kHz/16bit MP3 at 320mbps, when the song ends, the digital signal does not. When Polythene Pam starts, there is no interruption being that the two files are the same format, similar to what occurs when a CD is playing a disc.

Oddly enough, as I mentioned a while back on this thread, a workaround I found is that if you set the WASAPI output at 192kHz/24bit (2 channel), it does play flawlessly without interruptions, but it is also resampling the music. It should be able to do this without resampling.

I hope this gives the info you need. If not, please ask for more and I'll gladly provide it if I can. THANK YOU!!
Peke
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Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Sorry for delayed answer but I needed to test it on My own and I manage to obtain for testing 3 AV receivers
Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1070
Onkyo TX-RZ1100
Pioneer SC-LX801

So I connected them with Optical on my motherboard.
I can confirm your test, but unfortunately I'm not being able to archive what you wish and I'll blame Optical tech and AV.

When I set 24/96 (deliberately as it is baseline for optical support) to my SPDIF out all is OK, but when I use Exclusive and Automatic Each AV needs to adjust input, so I took recordings of mixed types FLAC, ALAC, WAV (along with 32i/442, 384 and 192) and few Lossy MP3s and M4As at highest settings. and Connected output to Tascam US 2x2 to record all outputs.

The Raw result in WAVOSAUR (ASIO v2.0) 24/96 Recording showed that if I set MMW to WASAPI Exclusive and Lock 24/96 output Sound dynamics is much better overall than AV lock on each track making clicks and pops on lock due the buffer packet is not full making it subjectively sound less than Bit perfect against Locked out Frequency.

My personal opinion is that at the current state of normal mainstream audio output (ALC1220) there is 0.1% SNR Margin that involved rendering and Blind tests I've done on family members using Audio Technica ATH-M50x of Tascam US 2x2 at full 24/96 from Wavosaur all of them noticed that locked 24/96 sound better due the AV DSP.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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jwillas1992

Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by jwillas1992 »

Don't use MediaMonkey Direct sound output.

Tools > Options > Output Plugin

1. I currently have it on MediaMonkey WASAPI Output. Try another if this doesn't work.
2. Select "Configure" > Uncheck "Remove silence at the beginning/ End of track"

Disable crossfade: Play > Uncheck "Crossfade"

Should play gapless and glitch-free. I can't believe somebody working for MediaMonkey couldn't answer that without more details...
Peke
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Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by Peke »

Hi,
Like pointed it depends on device not just settings.

Thank you for clarification on what worked for you.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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fresherbrine
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:29 am

Re: Gapless Playback, NOT Remove Silence!

Post by fresherbrine »

Thank you so much for solving the stuttering / pausing problem that my PC used to have when playing CD's. I've been putting up with this mild irritation for years. I'm a longtime MediaMonkey user but I finally registered today to thank everyone on here for explaining how to make my PC play CD's as they were intended to be heard (without pausing at the beginning of each track!)

Just for clarification, the track would start playing for a second, but then playback would pause for another second or two while my CD drive would make that spinning sound like it was having trouble reading the CD.

I fixed this by selecting the following: Tools > Options > under Player click Output Plug-ins. I changed the output plug-in from "MediaMonkey DirectSound output" to "MediaMonkey WASAPI output." Then I clicked Configure... and I checked "Exclusive mode," I selected "Format: Same as source," and I UNCHECKED "Remove silence at the beginning / end of track." 🙏
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