[REQ] Exit Button

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captainmcl
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by captainmcl » Thu May 02, 2013 12:56 pm

Barry4679 wrote:Maybe the developers are correct.

I just looked through my installed Android apps. Most don't have an Exit button on their menu, especially those which set up, and then allow later interaction with, a long running background task or service, which is how a music player can be seen.
Other examples; Facebook, Twitter, other Music app such as Sonos & PowerAmp, Drive, FireFox, Chrome, Email, Evernote
...
It seems that all of those apps also are intended to sync continuously even when you are not actively using them. When I want MMA to quit, I want it to quit!
CaptainMCL
Frisco, TX, USA

My environment:
Win8, always latest version/build (or beta version) of MMW
LG V20, Android 8.0, all music/podcasts/audiobooks on 64GB external SD card (which may be the source of half of my problems...), always the latest build of MMA

rovingcowboy
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by rovingcowboy » Thu May 02, 2013 4:00 pm

i just noticed the other day that play google no longer allows me to pick one or two program apps to automaticlly update it is either all apps or no apps for some reason?
so if you don't like it that they all auto update and eat your batterie power then the notice of updated versions needs to be continued in the forums,
i think it is a major pain in the but it is what needs to happen if google is going to be that way from now on.

yes captainmcl when mma is stopped by the button in the tray or by backing out of it to the home screen it is stopped.
even the autoupdate is not ran by mma it is ran by google play store. the device only checks against the list on google for any apps on your device's list with new numbers.
the apps don't really keep running it should not anyway?
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

Barry4679
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by Barry4679 » Fri May 03, 2013 4:55 am

captainmcl wrote: It seems that all of those apps also are intended to sync continuously even when you are not actively using them. When I want MMA to quit, I want it to quit!
There's always the tablet's power off button. :D

I googled the topic of whether Androids apps should have an exit button. Here is a rant from the developers of Android on the topic.

The advice is to "crawl from our hidden caves" towards "the new hotness" and not badger developers for an exit button, which has little meaning in an android context, as it is an "anti-pattern, which totally destroys the magic". I kid you not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631T7B8HOv4

There is a lot of discussion elsewhere on the topic, but the general consensus seems to be any developer who bows to pressure to include an exit button hasn't done their job properly; ie. has written a bad app which doesn't properly manage resources, or isn't doing their part to help establish the new paradigm.

A less out there discussion of the background to topic is here from another Google engineer:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com. ... d-way.html

After thinking about it I'm pretty happy with the existing MMA design. It seems to me that the existing design is better than an Exit button.
1> It is better discoverable than a menu item, as Users may never need to visit the menu (many apps don't have one), but the notification shade is in general use, and is more in your face
2> Can be used in more situations; ie. when I want to stop listening to music, but I have navigated away from MMA
3> It is in tune with most other android apps AFAICS
4> An exit button is ambiguous; what does it do? Close the screen but keep the music playing, or close the screen & stop the music ... the existence of an exit button seems to suggest that I need to return back into the app to stop consuming resources when the music queue is exhausted, which isn't true

rovingcowboy
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by rovingcowboy » Fri May 03, 2013 7:55 am

Barry4679 wrote:
captainmcl wrote: It seems that all of those apps also are intended to sync continuously even when you are not actively using them. When I want MMA to quit, I want it to quit!
There's always the tablet's power off button. :D

I googled the topic of whether Androids apps should have an exit button. Here is a rant from the developers of Android on the topic.

The advice is to "crawl from our hidden caves" towards "the new hotness" and not badger developers for an exit button, which has little meaning in an android context, as it is an "anti-pattern, which totally destroys the magic". I kid you not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=631T7B8HOv4

There is a lot of discussion elsewhere on the topic, but the general consensus seems to be any developer who bows to pressure to include an exit button hasn't done their job properly; ie. has written a bad app which doesn't properly manage resources, or isn't doing their part to help establish the new paradigm.

A less out there discussion of the background to topic is here from another Google engineer:
http://android-developers.blogspot.com. ... d-way.html

After thinking about it I'm pretty happy with the existing MMA design. It seems to me that the existing design is better than an Exit button.
1> It is better discoverable than a menu item, as Users may never need to visit the menu (many apps don't have one), but the notification shade is in general use, and is more in your face
2> Can be used in more situations; ie. when I want to stop listening to music, but I have navigated away from MMA
3> It is in tune with most other android apps AFAICS
4> An exit button is ambiguous; what does it do? Close the screen but keep the music playing, or close the screen & stop the music ... the existence of an exit button seems to suggest that I need to return back into the app to stop consuming resources when the music queue is exhausted, which isn't true

thanks for those links but it still is showing me i need to back out or close mma to widget to get the tray controls to show. although they work when i get there its a pain in the but to get it working that way is to me a lot more trouble then a menu exit button. there are some apps that include the option to customize their menu's and they allow adding the exit button to the menu, that might be an idea for mma so we could put it there if we want it there or use the tray all the time.

:D
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy 5 Android 5) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.

Barry4679
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by Barry4679 » Fri May 03, 2013 8:45 am

rovingcowboy wrote: thanks for those links but it still is showing me i need to back out or close mma to widget to get the tray controls to show. although they work when i get there its a pain in the but to get it working that way is to me a lot more trouble then a menu exit button
They could fix that.
ie. PowerAmp shows in the notification shade while PowerAmp screen is is still showing (ie. no need to hit the Android Back or Home button).
MM only shows in the notification shade after doing one of those. .. perhaps it is a MMA bug.

If it were change you would be able to exit with two gestures (slide shade & hit Stop icon), which is the same cost as hitting Menu & then the non-existent Exit item.

BTW, I prefer PowerAmp's shade exit icon (an X) to that of MMA (a square stop button). It seems clearer to me, ie no confusion between Stop & Pause functionality.

mcow
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by mcow » Fri May 03, 2013 11:23 pm

Barry4679 wrote:BTW, I prefer PowerAmp's shade exit icon (an X) to that of MMA (a square stop button). It seems clearer to me, ie no confusion between Stop & Pause functionality.
Oh, I like the square. That's the universal Stop icon, and that's what it does: moves the player from Pause to Stop. PowerAmp's "X" implies Exit.

Barry4679
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Re: [REQ] Exit Button

Post by Barry4679 » Sat May 04, 2013 1:35 am

mcow wrote:Oh, I like the square. That's the universal Stop icon, and that's what it does: moves the player from Pause to Stop. PowerAmp's "X" implies Exit.
Which is what I thought that it was doing, ie. exiting.

I don't have any special tools for sniffing around inside Android, but when MM is running either in the foreground or background, Androids Settings|Apps|Running shows MMA using around 30mb, with 2 process and 1 services (2 services if the music is actually playing).

When I hit the MMA "Stop" icon on the shade, MM disappears from the list of Running apps.

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