2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

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Barry4679
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2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MM5 has changed how the Column Filter is reset.
I don't think that the change is successful.

See this example:
  • I am in Grid By Album view, with the Column Filter columns set as Genre|AlbumArtist|Album
  • I set the Genre filter to Singer-Songwriter
  • ===> the grid shows my 214 Singer-Songwriter albums ... as expected
  • in the Column Filter I set AlbumArtist to Bob Dylan
  • ===> the grid is now filtered to show only my 60 Singer-Songwriter albums by Bob Dylan ... also as expected
  • change the Genre filter to Jazz
  • ===> the grid shows all of my Jazz albums ... as expected
  • go back to the previous filter position ... ie. Singer-Songwriter by Bob Dylan
  • then change the Genre to Classic Rock
  • ===> only 2 albums (?!) ... why only two?
    • in MM4 this would have shown all of my Classic Rock albums ... because changing a higher level filter would reset all lower levels
    • and in MM5, it worked exactly this way when I changed to Genre = Jazz
    • and there is nothing in the UI to indicate that the view is now filtered by anything other than by Genre = Classic Rock
  • if I then explicitly select the All row in the Column Filter's AlbumArtist column ===> I can now see all my other Classic Rock albums
  • this is fail IMO
I presume this new behaviour is intentional, ie. don't reset lower levels if they are non-empty after a change at a higher level
  • I think that it is too complex
  • I can't see how it helps (much) in any real-world example
  • it makes the Column Filter more complex to use, and less reliable, because you have to be always alert to whether the lower levels have been reset
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

I have just noticed another negative change to the Column Filter between MM4 and MM5.

In MM4 the up|down arrow keys caused navigation when a Column Filter column had focus.

In MM5 this does not happen. This reduces Column Filter usefulness for navigation purposes, can it be fixed?
MiPi
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by MiPi »

Yes, it is intentional to keep selection when possible, it works the same way e.g. in iTunes.
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by MiPi »

Barry4679 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 4:37 am I have just noticed another negative change to the Column Filter between MM4 and MM5.

In MM4 the up|down arrow keys caused navigation when a Column Filter column had focus.

In MM5 this does not happen. This reduces Column Filter usefulness for navigation purposes, can it be fixed?
Not sure I understand, up/down arrows change selected item in filter list that has focus and Tab switches to another filter list or tracklist, in both, MM4 and MM5. What is different?
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 am Yes, it is intentional to keep selection when possible
Do you personally use the Column Filter?
I use the Column Filter a lot. I have been testing MM5 for a long time now, but obly started "using" MM5 when it was officially released. ... I am finding that the change is a problem from my POV.

In what real world query would that behaviour it be useful? .. I can't think of one.
But I can tell you that behaviour causes confusion, even when you know that it there ... and most people converting from MM4 will not know that it is there.
It keeps tripping me up, because I don't realise that the invisible lower level filter is still active, so I am now trying to develop the habit of clicking the "ALL" for all lower level column headers whenever I make a filter change.

In the video I posted it was obvious that there was filtering happening (ie. all my albums were AWOL) ... often it is not so obvious.
MiPi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 am Yes, it is intentional to keep selection when possible, it works the same way e.g. in iTunes.
I have never used iTunes. I find it hard to believe that it is implemented as you have. Here is a still from the video I posted. Where does the UI say that the view is filtered to just AlbumArtist = Bob Dylan?

iTunes does that? I know not to expect much from iTunes, but ...?

MiPi wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:27 am Not sure I understand, up/down arrows change selected item in filter list that has focus and Tab switches to another filter list or tracklist, in both, MM4 and MM5. What is different?
OK, it works now ... it didn't when I posted.

I think that the issue is that when you restore MM5 from being minimised you don't restore focus fully ... ie. the cell is highlite, but it is not responding to navigation key strokes.

In MM4 you did used to restore focus fully.

You can replicate that?
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by MiPi »

Losing focus on minimize/maximize/restore buttons reproduced, fixed as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=17848

Column filter selection behavior left as it was, works the same way like iTunes and you are the only one complaining during last years.
I will try to implement at least auto-scrolling to the first selected item, to be more clear what is selected after the change.
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:01 am Losing focus on minimize/maximize/restore buttons reproduced, fixed as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=17848
Is not only minimize/maximize/restore btw.
Also happens if have tiled windows, or multiple vdus. Focus is not fully restored if I leave, and then return to MM5.
MiPi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:01 am you are the only one complaining during last years.
MM5 has only been released for a few weeks, so your comment is a tad early isn't it?
And I did make the same complaint during the Alpha stage.

MiPi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:01 am I will try to implement at least auto-scrolling to the first selected item, to be more clear what is selected after the change.
That would be good.
I presume that you mean that you will scroll Column Browser columns, so that any active rows are visible ... eg Bob Dylan in my example.

That would be good outcome. .
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by MiPi »

Auto-scrolling to selected items in column filter/browser fixed as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=17850.
Barry4679 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:21 am Is not only minimize/maximize/restore btw.
Also happens if have tiled windows, or multiple vdus. Focus is not fully restored if I leave, and then return to MM5.
In what scenario? When I am in some tracklist, switch to another window e.g. by Alt+TAB and then back, I have still cursor in this tracklist.
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:50 pm In what scenario? When I am in some tracklist, switch to another window e.g. by Alt+TAB and then back, I have still cursor in this tracklist.
Sorry, probably Tester Error.
Can't replicate today. I think I must have restored the window from minimised state before doing this test yesterday. ... ie. focus had already been lost before start of test.
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

Here is another issue where the MM5 Column Filter behaviour has taken a backwards step from MM4
  • video clip starts in MM4, with display filtered by the Column Filter
  • focus is in column one of the Column Filter
  • press Ctrl+Home keys
  • ===> the active Column Filter column is scrolled to the top, which resets the column filter in the main panel .... is good
  • then the video continues with the same thing in MM5
  • ===> the active Column Filter is scrolled ... but the main panel filter is not reset ... not good
  • press the Enter key to try to get you to release the filer ... nothing happens ... getting worse
  • it only works when I click in the active cell
nb. If you try the above actions in MM4, but this time using some filter column other than the first, you will see a MM4 bug.
This bug is not present in MM5, but it still does nothing useful.

Can you fix MM5 Column filter, so that Ctrl+Home works as expected? ... and could you also make it work for columns other than just column one?
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi, I confirm that v 2404 auto-scrolls to active Column Filter rows after a filter change.
That is a good change. Thank you.

Now it is clear that the display remains filtered by that column.
It becomes unclear if the column is subsequently scrolled

See this video clip:
  • AlbumArtist column is unfiltered
  • Is then filtered to Anat Fort
  • Column is scrolled ,,, by Ctrl+Home in this instance
  • ===> is now unclear that the display is filtered by this column ... no indication in toolbar bread crumbs ... no indication in the Column Filter control
Could this situation be clarified by a heading change in the Column Browser:
  • when the display is unfiltered by this column, the current heading is "All (898 Album Artists)
  • while the display is filtered by this column, could the heading change to "All (1 of 898 Album Artists)
I think that would add more clarity

If the above tweak was made, I would like to simplify the following request.

Barry4679 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:45 am Can you fix MM5 Column filter, so that Ctrl+Home works as expected? ... and could you also make it work for columns other than just column one?
As you see in the above vide clip, Ctrl+Home scrolls the focused Column Filter column to the top,, and place a dotted border around the "All" cell, but does not affect display filtering.

If I scroll back down I can see that the selected row, that is hidden, is still highlite.

This is all different to MM4, but with the above change suggestion, I now think it is OK.

But what I would like is that if I then press the Enter key, that you would react as if I had clicked that row ... ie. remove the filter.

At the moment the Column filter cannot be controlled just via the keyboard ... ie. it requires the mouse also.
  • at the end of the video clip, focus was in that "ALL (898 Album Artist)" cell, and the cell was surrounded by a dotted border
  • I pressed the Enter key to select the cell... to remove the filter ====> nothing happened
  • suggestion is that this key press not be ignored
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by MiPi »

Simply use Home/End, not Ctrl+Home, Ctrl causes, that selection is not done (then you need to use arrows to make selection).
If you scroll selection out, this selection is not visible, well, sorry, but it is expected, it is the same in any other list anywhere. Sometimes there could be statusbar with state info, but filter columns should be as simple as possible.
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Re: 2402 - Column Filter behaviour change is a fail IMO

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:10 am Simply use Home/End, not Ctrl+Home, Ctrl causes, that selection is not done (then you need to use arrows to make selection).
If you scroll selection out, this selection is not visible, well, sorry, but it is expected, it is the same in any other list anywhere. Sometimes there could be statusbar with state info, but filter columns should be as simple as possible.
Thanks, that works.
My muscle memory wants to press the Ctrl key also ... must have been some application I had long ago.

Both options worked the same in MM4 ... it would assist migration if both worked in MM5 also wouldn't it? .. Windows default for Ctrl+Home is "go to top of document" isn't it? So it should work.


MiPi wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:10 am If you scroll selection out, this selection is not visible, well, sorry, but it is expected, it is the same in any other list anywhere.
True, but with MM5 you have created some complexity when clearing the Column Fitter.
It was simple in MM4:
  • toggle the left column from some setting to the "All" cell
  • ===> job done ... all filter columns have been cleared
But no more. Your MM5 change, for which I can't think of a Use Case, makes the task of clearing more error prone.
Your recent tweak assists as a warning when changing, but the situation is still not 100% IMO.

You didn't like my other idea. How about this? I think that it is better.
The font colour change in section B of that image makes it clearer which columns contain active filters.
Assuming that it is not hard to do, it seems a worthwhile change to me.

MiPi wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:10 amSometimes there could be statusbar with state info, but filter columns should be as simple as possible.
Well, yes you could do more.
This is how Excel does it. There is a icon on the column heading to indicate that there is a active filter using that column, and the tool tip shows the filter criteria.

You could do something like that, but I think it would be acceptable if the UI just indicated which columns are active ... and I think that there is zero case for the UI not to indicate which columns are active.

Another point is the border style for an active filter cell.
Which cell here is the active filter ?
Is not easy to say, ... Is it Billy Bragg or is it Alison Krause?
Confusion is created by mouse resting position ... and is especially bad is this skin ... which needs fixing because it is the default skin isn't it.

But anyway, it is a lot easier to see what is going on here.

Why don't you create the dotted border when selection is by mouse click? ... you do create the border when selection is via keyboard.

The dotted border is preferable as shown the the above diagram. ,,, Can the border for selection by mouse click be fixed?
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