FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

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FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

I suggested this earlier in another thread in the News-Forum for an addon, native support would be clearly better: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... =3&t=96397

To get things straight: I found the system of using the file-meta-data for tagging, sorting, naming purpose a good thing. If you move the file, the data you attached to the file are getting with it. This is simple and good.

But I often have additional informations about the producer (in my case especially for videos, but others may have this for music publishers, too) or links in relation with them, like different channels or for platforms like patreon, that I want add centralized to my file-organization.
Clearly this can't be done in the metadata, so I suggest to establish a MM-intern database (exportable for backup-purposes) where names of producers, actors, interprets, publishers, that are in the metadata etc. can be transformed in own stable databse entrys (what is rudimentary possible in MM4 with an window for notes accessible through the tree or in MM5 to attach a picture of an interpret). And that these entrys can have (customizable) value-fields for age, gender, link to channel, picture etc. for persons or founding date, homepage, shop, logo, etc. ie for companies, or what the user want to add for information.

There mustn't be an auto-fill functionality. Since entries for actors or publishers only have to be created centrally once, the workload is limited anyway depending on the user's own needs.

So I have files und personally important informations about interprets, especially in the youtube- and self-publishing age in the same place. I really hope you expand/ include this in MM5. For me personally it's the cause, why I still use the free version and don't buy a lifetime upgrade, because i have a bed feeling purchase a software that forces me to laborious outsource my information management on other software so I have to maintain parallel structures.

Media Monkey is awesome, but it don't saturate me.

====
Another suggestion is linked with this, but for me not so vital. Adding (mayby in an major update) the functionality of include organizing pictures in Media Monkey. The great three Media (besides documents) were then included in one allround organizing solution. I think we all have pictures, promo-material, posters or concert-memories that we maby would like to link to the musicians or the movie, that it is about.
Last edited by Archiv-Cowboy on Sun May 10, 2020 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Bublisher, etc.

Post by Peke »

Hi,
May I suggest that you try to use one of MM5 newest features and that it can support any extended/non standard tags if they follow tag format rules.

Right click on any track in MM -> Properties -> Custom and there you can add any custom tag to your liking, and it will be preserved in file not breaking the format.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Bublisher, etc.

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Thanks for your answer.

I think this isn't a proper way to do it. The information I am talking about are properties of actor, publisher, etc.. It isn't usefull add this Information without context to the file itself, because they aren't the properties of the file. In example I have a video collaboration with three performers Erica Doe , Adam Doent and Peter Does. All of these are webvideo-producers. Peter making comedy, Adam und Erica are singer and songwriter, first is specialised on Rap, the last on covering anime intros in english. They have there own different channels on YouTube. Peter has an Patreon and Adam is on Soundclound, too. So I have music from Adam und Erica, too.

How you would attach with for this purpose insufficient tagging system these informations? And how to enroll it in an generally way, without manually editing most files?

In my example I would have in all files the information about age, gender, channel, link, etc. not only for one actor, but for all actors, for the producer/ publisher, you know, instead of one centralized entry for all named persons/ organizations that I can reach from the tree and that is linked with the files, where this actor is named in.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Bublisher, etc.

Post by Peke »

Hi,
You are talking about completely different things, Producers is supported by multi value so if you add them as "Erica Doe; Adam Doent; Peter Does" they will be listed together for that Video and you can also list them individually under producers and once you select them you will get info on each of them if exist.

From what I understand you would like to have statistics per producer and also available per video. It is not supported by tag formats. Actually I am not sure how that would even look?

Can you give any app example what show that actual info like you want in order to at least have base line what is missing in MM.

Custom Non standard tags are made just for that, but then unless widely accepted only taht app will be able to read them.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Bublisher, etc.

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

I think we have a big misunderstanding. You focus on the files.

It's not the problem, that you can add producer, actor as a value to a file. This works good. But you can't add values, to this actor or producer, because producers or actors haven't an entry of their own in the database. They show up from their names in the tree and you can so sort off videos, that are from or with them, but there is'nt an opportunity, to add informations about these actors or producers to them, like you can do this with the media files. You can only establish a picture of the performer. In MM4 there was at least the opportunity, to right click on an actors (producer whatever) in the file-tree and add an commentary. This had downsides, how i stated here:
Archiv-Cowboy wrote: Wed May 06, 2020 10:32 pm In addition during testing:

The entry you can make on Actors or producers gets deleted, if all files that have the actors name attached in their metadata are removed. The name is alongside removed from the tree. First the information can reappear, when you don't restart the program and relocate the files. If you close the program, while the actor is absent in the tree, the attached informations are removed as well and can't restored in MM4.

It's good to handle the file-data with the files meta, so they are stable and can move with the files, but I think it would be an big Plus, when we can handle the previously named objects as stable entrys with own properties in the MM-Database. An Addon would be great.

In the MM5 Beta, that I tested the last hours I can add a picture to the artist, what is good, but there isn't anymore the opportunity to add information to them not even the simple comment field that MM4 still have.
think you'll find that all that tagging functionality is already there in both MM4 and MM5.
So I don't think so...
It was in case insufficient, so I suggest an intern database (not based on files metadata, so it is stable and backupable) that allows to transform an actors or producers name, that is attached to a file in an entry of it's own, when you edit it in the tree, that allows to add customizable values (like gender, age, I explained this already) to THIS actor.

A software, that has some sort of this functionality for example is EazyFlixPix (https://www.chip.de/downloads/EazyFlixP ... 30443.html). It works not with metadata of the files, that's the cause why I don't use it; but to explain what I mean:

If you tag a video-file with actors or producers, the tag itself generates an entry in the database. So you have "Funny Video with Music Parody" and you add Erica, Peter and Adam as values for "cast". There would be also generated the entrys in the catergory "Actors" for "Peter Does" ; "Adam Doent" ; "Erica Doe" and you are given the opportunity to Editing these Entries. You can add values/ properties to each one of these, what you like: gender, age, channelname, channellink, we had this already...

What I suggest isn't handle the files like this software, it is good, what MediaMonkey do, but provide me with an intern database not for the files, but for the actors, producers, companies whatever, that are mentioned in the files metadata and opportunities, to add informations to them.

I hope it become more clear, what I suggest.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc.

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Peke wrote: Sun May 10, 2020 10:41 am Can you give any app example what show that actual info like you want in order to at least have base line what is missing in MM.
Has it become more clear, what I was talking about?
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc.

Post by Peke »

It is somewhat clear what you want to archive. I created https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=16613 for internal specs before we publish it.

As even it was available in MM4 it was not very useful because you could see it only in one place and by third party plugins that we were not aware of.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc.

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Peke wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 11:01 am It is somewhat clear what you want to archive. I created https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=16613 for internal specs before we publish it.

As even it was available in MM4 it was not very useful because you could see it only in one place and by third party plugins that we were not aware of.
First thanks for that.

Yes it wasn't very useful. Primarly for me: It was only a text-field and that's it (that's why I suggested a database) and it was unstable (the commentary you could add, would be deleted, if all files that responded to an actor get deleted from the archive). That you have only access from the file tree wasn't the greatest problem for me, because it was possible to search for a name, but clearly, if you have stable entries in intern databases for actors, that are generated from the names in the files meta-data there were the possibility to Hyperlink it in the UI to the database-entry.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

I want to ask if you've already discussed my proposal.

It's one thing that I would still very much like to see on the program.

I am currently saving the additional information in text files in the folders. Unfortunately, this is not particularly efficient and also not really useful.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Peke »

Hi,
In each track properties Under Custom Tab you can literally add new new tag field and save it with file.

For My DJ stuff I use custom field "Energy level".
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Peke wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 pm For My DJ stuff I use custom field "Energy level".
yeah that's a nice idea, but this is a property of the file itself, bu it isn't YOUR Energylevel as creator ^^ it is the characteristics of the producers that i would like to include in the program.

I want to refresh your memory a little bit. :)

In the past I already explained, that the custom tags aren't, what i'm talking about, because the information I want to add aren't properties of the file (track or video), but of the actors or producers or publishers, that are already attached to the files properties. It doesn't makes sense to add a Tag like "Age (Nicholas Cage)" "Age (Brian Lieberman)" "Age (Nancy Dunham)" to a movie-file where I added in the actors field Nicholas Cage, Brian Lieberman and Nancy Dunham. It makes less sense to add Nicholas Cages Age Tag to all Nick Cage Movies.

But it would make perfectly sense to add this information seperately to own Entries for Nick, Brian and Nancy.

I used MM5 the last months and you already have a sorting for actors, producers etc in the organizing tree. And you have already the function to right-click on (for example) an actor to give him a picture of your choice. so it seems there is already a function that has created an entry in some sort of backend database for the name, in the way you can attach informations, like a picture on it.
If you right click on the actors entry there is still another point in the context-menu. You have there "properties", too, like for a file, but in the moment it has no other use than opening property editing on all files with that actors name as value.

Why not open the properties of the selected Actor, Producer, Publisher, Interpret, etc. etc. in this way instead with the opportunity to add custom value-fields to them, so the user can decide, what information he want to add. This is what I suggested earlier.
The only meaningful conditions should be that the entries are stable (and not disappear if all files, that carry the actors name are disappear, what comments did in MM4) and backupable/ exportable on other devices.

I hope you now remember the issue :)
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Barry4679 »

Archiv-Cowboy wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:16 pm I used MM5 the last months and you already have a sorting for actors, producers etc in the organizing tree. And you have already the function to right-click on (for example) an actor to give him a picture of your choice. so it seems there is already a function that has created an entry in some sort of backend database for the name, in the way you can attach informations, like a picture on it.
If you right click on the actors entry there is still another point in the context-menu. You have there "properties", too, like for a file, but in the moment it has no other use than opening property editing on all files with that actors name as value.

Why not open the properties of the selected Actor, Producer, Publisher, Interpret, etc. etc. in this way instead with the opportunity to add custom value-fields to them, so the user can decide, what information he want to add. This is what I suggested earlier.
The only meaningful conditions should be that the entries are stable (and not disappear if all files, that carry the actors name are disappear, what comments did in MM4) and backupable/ exportable on other devices.
Hi Archiv-Cowboy,

you must be feeling frustrated. The more you write (and clearly btw) explain your request, the less they seem to want to understand what you are asking.

I think that the truth is that they have nothing that they can offer you atm.

The only "media" that the MediaMonkey database recognises as 1st class citizens is music tracks, and also video items in a limited sense.

For this 1st release of MM5, the database has not changed from what was in the MM4 database.
Your videos are added into the "Songs" table in the database. They have added a few video-specific columns to a "song" ; eg. Actor, Director, EpisideNumber, etc.

You can add custom columns at the individual video (aka Song) detail level, using the existing Customxx columns, like Peke is describing.

But MM5 has gone backwards in the area of the group columns that you are interested in,eg. at the Actor and Producer, etc levels ... ie. things or people that are involved in a group of songs|movies|episodes. They have quietly dropped support for custom notes at group levels, like artist (aka Actor) and album (aka television Series) levels, as you have discovered. ... This is a really surprising (un)development, because it makes MM less of a "media" database IMO.

Maybe they can be convinced to add custom group columns to MM in a later version. Peke says he has created an internal topic, but we can't be sure because we even though he posted you a link for some reason, we cannot read what he has written, and it is not clear that he understands what you are saying. ... and unless I am mistaken, someone appears to have deleted a comment that I made in this thread that referring to that dead link, which calls into question their intentions here.

In the meantime you would be better looking for another app ie a real "media" database ... if one does exist. I would guess that one does exist. There used to be CatVids, but although he is still supporting his app, he is no longer selling new licences.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Yes frustrating is the right word, Because I don't know how to explain it any better. Peke seems helpfully, so I haven't assumed bad intentions.

On the other hand I honestly already searched for an other Media Manager (I give it up to find a program, that can handle pictures, too. There isn't any media all-around software) But its very difficult to find appropriate tools. The Google Search is a big mess, too, because if you search for Media Management Software, you get Social Media Stuff. If you typed in Music and Video, you get Music Player and Stuff.

And if you really find some advanced file Management Tools in most cases they have a lot of downs in the actual functionality. Video means most movies or episodes, not YT-Videos or private Stuff. So many of them only have a collection function with database uplink to IMDb without opportunities to scan files or give them on Data.

Other programs fully operate with a own database, that means the file metadata aren't read or edited by the program. And not all of these programs have a advanced database, that generates entries for Informations about Producers, Publishers, etc. I tried to combine a other tool with Media Monkeys functionality to mass edit file metadata, but the other tool don't use the files meta data, don't import the values or is able to edit them. That's bad because you fully bound to this programs. In the case of media monkey the files themselfes carry most of the metadata and they are readable by windows in the file properties, too, so they aren't lost.

It is one thing to have general Information about Acots, Producers, Interprets bound to a program-specific database, but it is a other thing, if you need this program on all devices, to work with your files or have double work to tag them properly, because you still need the files meta-data if you want to use file search or sorting by a simple media player.

I haven't find a good solution, yet. Media Monkey was still closest to what i want achieve, if they had a simple database structure with opportunity to create custom value fields for the producers, while the core-functionality handle the files and using the files metadata isn't touched.

It's ironic some way, that it is become fully common to handle and work with files, especially with media files private or on work, but there still isn't good software (free to us or for prices, that private customers can pay) or actual supported software. I'm archive and using many video clips and take care of noting sources, documenting release dates, links and having additional information about the content creator is important so. And it's the best to have it in one place, so I can easily switch the files and have all the information i need only one or two clicks away.

Frustrating indeed :-?
Barry4679 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:58 pm
Archiv-Cowboy wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:16 pm I used MM5 the last months and you already have a sorting for actors, producers etc in the organizing tree. And you have already the function to right-click on (for example) an actor to give him a picture of your choice. so it seems there is already a function that has created an entry in some sort of backend database for the name, in the way you can attach informations, like a picture on it.
If you right click on the actors entry there is still another point in the context-menu. You have there "properties", too, like for a file, but in the moment it has no other use than opening property editing on all files with that actors name as value.

Why not open the properties of the selected Actor, Producer, Publisher, Interpret, etc. etc. in this way instead with the opportunity to add custom value-fields to them, so the user can decide, what information he want to add. This is what I suggested earlier.
The only meaningful conditions should be that the entries are stable (and not disappear if all files, that carry the actors name are disappear, what comments did in MM4) and backupable/ exportable on other devices.
Hi Archiv-Cowboy,

you must be feeling frustrated. The more you write (and clearly btw) explain your request, the less they seem to want to understand what you are asking.

I think that the truth is that they have nothing that they can offer you atm.

The only "media" that the MediaMonkey database recognises as 1st class citizens is music tracks, and also video items in a limited sense.

For this 1st release of MM5, the database has not changed from what was in the MM4 database.
Your videos are added into the "Songs" table in the database. They have added a few video-specific columns to a "song" ; eg. Actor, Director, EpisideNumber, etc.

You can add custom columns at the individual video (aka Song) detail level, using the existing Customxx columns, like Peke is describing.

But MM5 has gone backwards in the area of the group columns that you are interested in,eg. at the Actor and Producer, etc levels ... ie. things or people that are involved in a group of songs|movies|episodes. They have quietly dropped support for custom notes at group levels, like artist (aka Actor) and album (aka television Series) levels, as you have discovered. ... This is a really surprising (un)development, because it makes MM less of a "media" database IMO.

Maybe they can be convinced to add custom group columns to MM in a later version. Peke says he has created an internal topic, but we can't be sure because we even though he posted you a link for some reason, we cannot read what he has written, and it is not clear that he understands what you are saying. ... and unless I am mistaken, someone appears to have deleted a comment that I made in this thread that referring to that dead link, which calls into question their intentions here.

In the meantime you would be better looking for another app ie a real "media" database ... if one does exist. I would guess that one does exist. There used to be CatVids, but although he is still supporting his app, he is no longer selling new licences.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Lowlander »

It has to do with consumer demand, and there simply isn't enough for it. An additional problem can be the tagging support or efficiency (some formats need to rewrite the entire file for a tag update) that further makes this less important for many users.
A lack of portability (it isn't file metadata, but person metadata) makes this request even more limited in use for many.

I would assume that Addons can do this, both in the sense of storing additional data in the database as well as making it available in the interface. There definitely would be others that be interested in using this.
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Re: FR: Intern customizable Database for Actors, Producer, Publisher, etc. [#16613]

Post by Archiv-Cowboy »

Lowlander wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:53 pm It has to do with consumer demand, and there simply isn't enough for it. An additional problem can be the tagging support or efficiency (some formats need to rewrite the entire file for a tag update) that further makes this less important for many users.
A lack of portability (it isn't file metadata, but person metadata) makes this request even more limited in use for many.

I would assume that Addons can do this, both in the sense of storing additional data in the database as well as making it available in the interface. There definitely would be others that be interested in using this.
Yes an addon would be enough. Problem enough I can't find something like that for MM4 so I doubt there will be some sort of this in the future for MM5. Thats why I have made a feature request. I haven't the skills to program an addon by myself.
An additional problem can be the tagging support or efficiency (some formats need to rewrite the entire file for a tag update)
To be clear. That's why I suggested a program-intern database. It is more easy to implement, because you can leave the files and the base functionality untouched. Especially this functionality is the cause why I like to use Media Monkey. More important: How I explained it has no use to attach the information about how old a actor is or when a publisher was established, to a single or all files with this actor/ publisher. It is only important that the entry of the actor (where you attach informations to) is interlinked with all filles, that have his name in his Actor-Value-field and this functionality is already given. So you can go from all files to the actors name (and vice versa) and can get the information only once in his properties, what would be enough for me.
A lack of portability (it isn't file metadata, but person metadata) makes this request even more limited in use for many.
I thinks it's only important, that you can export the complete intern database in a file, and relocate the file on other device, if you are forced to change your workstation. In the daily use (hearing Music on other devices like your smartphone or watchting videos) I don't think you often need additional information, so it would be a waste of time, to implement a synchronizing feature or make it able to transfer all the additional informations about persons with the files.
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