Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

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IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Great to see the progress being made with each new release. Installed 2415 this AM and dug a little deeper into the functionality.

In order to get a consistent format to files created when synch'in devices I have ALL my single digit tracks prefixed with a zero. Typically the filename is then <Disc#><Track#>-<Title> on sync e.g. 101-The Wall Street Shuffle.mp3 in the folder Device\Music\10cc\Sheet Music.

However, if I enable "Lookup Missing Information via Auto-Tag (Registered Users)" using the "Add/Rescan Files to the Library" dialogue box then it means that "most" tracks (with Track# 1 to 9) are picked up as wrong.

Also, the first album example found and shown in the "Auto-Tag: Tracks xx to yy of zzzzz" does not show the "Skip" button in the lower right. Subsequent albums show this button.

Then the Disc# column on this screen is not populated with data for any tracks after the "Processing" step. This suggests to me that - whilst there is Disc# in my library - the disc# is not being looked up during the look-up / audio finger-printing step.

This sort of undermines the usefulness of this new(?) "en-block" Auto-Tag feature. I would like to see the comparison of disc and track but be able to ignore the leading zero i.e. just focus on mis-numbered tracks and not the exact format of the number.

I also find that sometimes the Title is flagged as an issue but it is not obvious why! These two screen shots give examples:

https://octoberclub-my.sharepoint.com/: ... Q?e=Wg0DLv

https://octoberclub-my.sharepoint.com/: ... g?e=tMamB8

Hope this is useful feedback.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
Barry4679
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by Barry4679 »

IanRTaylorUK wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 am However, if I enable "Lookup Missing Information via Auto-Tag (Registered Users)" using the "Add/Rescan Files to the Library" dialogue box then it means that "most" tracks (with Track# 1 to 9) are picked up as wrong.
Have you looked at the Library>MetadataLookup tab at Tools|Options?
In there you can configure to remove the Disc# and Track# from AutoTag consideration.


IanRTaylorUK wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 am I also find that sometimes the Title is flagged as an issue but it is not obvious why!
The example in one of your screenshots has a apostrophe in the Album title.
I think that there is something wrong with the way that MM5 handles apostrophes. Autotag seems to come up with a false error on most of my tags with apostrophes.

Like you I tested the "Lookup Missing Information via Auto-Tag (Registered Users)" option using the latest beta.

I scanned a bunch of directories. It seemed to stop and get me to approve every album, even those with no issues.
Why is that? The task is already slow and tedious enough.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Thanks for looking at this Barry.

If I remove <Disc#> and <Track#> that is not really what I would want. I want the program to tell me if there is a "significant" difference with the disc or track number but not a minor issue like a leading zero. I am hoping that the leading zero(s) can be trimmed for comparison purposes / or maybe an option to set the "severity" of comparison.

Yes I think we agree that the Title comparison may also be a bit too severe and thus result in an excessive proportion of the library being "flagged".

It would be great if this can be improved.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
Lowlander
Posts: 50166
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by Lowlander »

A difference, any difference, should be flagged. If Auto-Tag is going to modify my files I should be made aware of this before it does so. So a different apostrophe, or removing leading zeroes should be shown as changes.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Hi Lowlander,

I agree. But I do not want Auto-Tag to remove leading zeros. I want the leading zeros to be ignored when the software presents lists of files potentially needing improvements to tags.

As it stands, this functionality presents me with perhaps 75% - 80% of my library as candidates for Auto-Tagging! Far too much to be useful.

The leading zero is important for my sorting as I group / sort in a manner that allows me to easily create "Album" playlists with the tracks in the right order.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
PetrCBR
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:31 pm
Location: Czech
Contact:

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by PetrCBR »

It's already on my plate.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Thanks for looking into this.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
Barry4679
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number

Post by Barry4679 »

Lowlander wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:35 am A difference, any difference, should be flagged. If Auto-Tag is going to modify my files I should be made aware of this before it does so.
Yes, but as I said it also stops when there are no recommendations.

Tried again with 2415 .... It stops and shows me every album, including albums where it recommends zero changes. ... Most have albums have zero changes, so much time time pressing Skip (nb. Confirm disabled because there are no recommendations), just so that it can move to the next album

Steps:
  • clean install of v 2415
  • File|AddScan
  • set option Lookup Missing Information
  • scan a directory
Lowlander wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:35 am So a different apostrophe, or removing leading zeroes should be shown as changes.
How many significant apostrophes are there? My keyboard has just the one apostrophe.
Any noise from non-significant apostrophe variances should be filtered out, otherwise the Toll offers little productivity.
Lowlander
Posts: 50166
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by Lowlander »

Yes, Auto-Tag shows all files selected, just like Auto-Organize Files and Auto-Tag from Filename do, even if no change will be made. Auto-Tag in this case allows you to select alternative matches, or engage manual lookup for files that haven't been changed by the initial lookup and also allows manual editing if so desired.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
Barry4679
Posts: 1607
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
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Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by Barry4679 »

Lowlander wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:52 am Yes, Auto-Tag shows all files selected, just like Auto-Organize Files and Auto-Tag from Filename do, even if no change will be made.
OK, thanks for that. I have no experience with any of those option, outside of beta testing.

But the option that I used is not the same as Auto-Tag when triggered from the context menu.
The Context Menu version presents its finding in batches of 100 tracks. It could be improved by processing the next 100 tracks in the background, while the user decides to do with the 1st 100. But at least it does something to speed up the process.

OTOH the version that is auto-triggered from the AddScan screen processes a single album at a time, so if the average album contains 12 tracks, it is 8x less efficient. .... It stops and waits for me to respond, and then I have to wait while it processes the next album. .... and it has problems. I processed a few albums, and then it got to one where it took 2:26 to process the tracks (without recommendation!), and then it started looking for artwork. I got bored after 7 minutes (by stopwatch) ... I pressed Skip. It kept looking, and my only option was to Cancel the whole task.

Lowlander wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:52 am Auto-Tag in this case allows you to select alternative matches, or engage manual lookup for files that haven't been changed by the initial lookup and also allows manual editing if so desired.
That's bogus isn't it? How to I lookup "engage manual lookup" where there are no orange buttons for me to see other options auto-tag considered?

Also even when the Auto-Tag has found a change to suggest, I can review alternate options, but if I select one of these my selection is ignored, and Auto_tag persists with it's own choice.

And when it is just an album art change which is suggested (ie. all tracks are OK, or I consider that all of the recommendations are incorrect) there is no way to accept just the art change, without also accepting a track change ... ie. the Confirm button is not enabled.
Lowlander wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:35 am A difference, any difference, should be flagged. If Auto-Tag is going to modify my files I should be made aware of this before it does so. So a different apostrophe, or removing leading zeroes should be shown as changes.
Back to the apostrophe point, where you ignored my comments.

So how do know whether to approve the change?
Example here, how do I decide between these two options:
  • I'm So Free
  • I'm So Free
And if there is no difference that I can see, why are you asking me? It is just noise, and should be filtered out.

And why does it seem that any tag with an apostrophe is being flagged? I ripped all these albums. All these tags were obtained from the Internet by my ripper. Why do they all seem to be "wrong"? ... This is a large job, and this flaw just makes it enormous IMO.

nb. I restarted the Auto-Tag for the "7 minutes delay album" mentioned above, while I completed this post. It has been spinning its wheel for 30 minutes now. It has obviously has a problem, and the process has hung. ... It is serious because SKIP does nothing, and the only other option is to Cancel the whole task. If any Dev wants to look at this album, let me know and I will PM a download link.

.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Apostrophe / Auto-Tag

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Is there something I can set or do to stop every apostrophe triggering a "conflict" when using Auto-Tag? Words like Don't, Won't Nobody's mean I get a high incidence of files / track showing highlighted with the red exclamation mark.

Here's an example:

https://octoberclub-my.sharepoint.com/: ... A?e=XANuLi

Thanks.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
PetrCBR
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:31 pm
Location: Czech
Contact:

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by PetrCBR »

re apostrophes: i know there's room for improvements ... currently Musicbrainz uses different apostrophes - as in unicode there are many slightly different apostrophes ... not just one (for example here and here). Will try to make some improvements in this area for 5.0.2 or 5.1.
IanRTaylorUK
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Re: Fine Tuning of Auto-Tag - Track Number [#17200]

Post by IanRTaylorUK »

Thanks for reply. So nothing can be done to minimise the issue.

For my workflow, this problem with Auto-Tag has an impact on the several of the other "Gold" paid for features.

It also means it is hard to say Auto-Tag has been fully beta tested.
Ian Taylor
MM4W 4.1.29.1919 (Normal 12Feb2021) on Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit (v21H1 Build 19043.1110)
Add-Ons:Export / Import Playlists for Child Nodes; Magic Nodes; RegExp Find and Replace; Tagging Inconsistencies
Music library of 33,822 files (D:\) backed up to OneDrive
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Sony Xperia XZ with Android 8 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
MMA 1.4.4.0952 on Samsung Tab S5e with Android 9 & ~15,000 Tracks in 925 Playlists
XZ synchronised with MM4W using USB; S5e synchronised with MM4W using USB
Trying MM5W 5.0.1.2422 (Normal 19Jul2021) on same Windows 10 PC with a copy of media files (E:\) (and separate library database for each major version!)
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