why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast [#17638]

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Ludek
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Re: option to turn off MM5 polling for chromecast, multicast

Post by Ludek »

MM5 does not integrate any Google related services by default, it just uses the standard discovery protocols (mDNS and SSDP) to find other devices on the network, more details already discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=98563
Ludek
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Re: option to turn off MM5 attempts to access wi-fi router

Post by Ludek »

This is triplicate thread from the user astro46:
Already discussed in the original thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=98563
Later in viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98567
And this is the triplicate thread.
Ludek
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by Ludek »

MM5 does not integrate any Google related services by default, it just uses the standard discovery protocols (mDNS and SSDP) to find other devices on the network!

The discovery protocols (like SSDP, mDNS) uses any app that wants to auto-discover available DLNA/UPnP/Cast devices on the local network. This is nothing non-standard.
drakinite
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by drakinite »

If you really don't want MM to communicate on your network, you can probably create a rule in Windows Firewall to block it.

But to reiterate Lowlander and Ludek, this is just completely normal device discovery stuff. There's no phoning home, and there's no connection to Google services (unless, for example, you add a Google Drive source to your library). We don't track users.

As for "attempting to get into my router" - How is that any different from any other app accessing the internet? The MM5 app has a built in web browser.
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astro46
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by astro46 »

At the moment a more serious topic has arisen. I had posted on the bugs and suggestions board about an option to turn off multicast searches, and a separate request to remove the attempted access to wi-fi router.
I have mentioned the attempted access to wi-fi router in this thread several times but no one is willing to discuss it.

in the suggestions board a conversation was happening about multicast, and in my last response i mentioned my other request regarding access to wi-fi router. I received notifications this morning about responses in that thread, but clicking on the link, find the threads have been removed; both the suggestion about multicast (because i mentioned the wi-fi access?) and the request for removing attempted wi-fi access from mm5.

This raises questions.
I am now expecting this thread to suddenly disappear also.

edit: scrolling up, perhaps the explanation is that Ludek decided to delete the threads with the excuse that they are 'triplicates'. I disagree and replied.
Last edited by astro46 on Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
astro46
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by astro46 »

drakinite wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:04 am If you really don't want MM to communicate on your network, you can probably create a rule in Windows Firewall to block it.

But to reiterate Lowlander and Ludek, this is just completely normal device discovery stuff. There's no phoning home, and there's no connection to Google services (unless, for example, you add a Google Drive source to your library). We don't track users.

As for "attempting to get into my router" - How is that any different from any other app accessing the internet? The MM5 app has a built in web browser.
simple, on both comments. There is no point in a program continuing to generate useless requests, which it will do, even if they are blocked. waste of resources.
no other app has tried to access the router control panel. accessing a router control panel is totally different from access the internet.
astro46
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Re: option to turn off MM5 attempts to access wi-fi router

Post by astro46 »

Ludek wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:02 am This is triplicate thread from the user astro46:
Already discussed in the original thread: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=98563
Later in viewtopic.php?f=30&t=98567
And this is the triplicate thread.
I disagree. this thread was asking for information about these requests. this is a help board.
the two threads on the suggestion board were requests for dealing with repeated multicast polling and the attempts to access router control panel. not the same thing.
i now see why the suggestions threads have just disappeared along with the discussions. thanks for the courteous behavior.
astro46
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Re: option to turn off MM5 attempts to access wi-fi router

Post by astro46 »

Peke wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:11 am Hi,
Can you please tell us Partial IP address what MM5 tries to access eg. 239.255.xxx.xxx port 1900 for example?

Also If you open support ticket supply us debug log as described at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=86643 we can tell you details about what MM5 tries to access.
sorry. at the moment this discussion has been derailed by Ludek deciding to delete 2 suggestions, in the suggestions board.
Lowlander
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by Lowlander »

All discussions are a continuation of the first post and are all available in this thread, nothing has been deleted. Instead of restarting the same conversion with the same arguments being made pro and con it's all merged in the topic that started this conversation.

You've made a request to disable this, which stands. If many other users also request this it may make it into a future release. Although a few users are worried about network/internet access the vast majority is okay with this. As stated the access to the network is expected as part of discovery protocols as well as MediaMonkey possibly requesting data from the internet (Tools > Options > Metadata Lookup). At this moment there is no setting to disable discovery of DLNA or Chromecast capable devices on the local network.
ZvezdanD
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by ZvezdanD »

I wouldn't say that just a few users are worried about network/internet access of MM. You know, if nobody reports the problem, that doesn't mean that nobody is experiencing it. Many people simply don't want to bother with the web forums, many users will just forget about such program and go looking for something else.

The OP was lucky, he got the reply at least. I asked the similar question long time ago when MM4 appeared, without any response:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76866

I have blocked MM in the Windows Firewall rules since then, but it is really annoying to add/change those rules whenever I want to add a new portable installation or to change its location on disk.
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astro46
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by astro46 »

ZvezdanD wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:08 am I wouldn't say that just a few users are worried about network/internet access of MM. You know, if nobody reports the problem, that doesn't mean that nobody is experiencing it. Many people simply don't want to bother with the web forums, many users will just forget about such program and go looking for something else
Thanks for commenting. It is rare (or never) that when someone takes the time to contact a developer about an issue, that this is the only person having the problem. (Though some will like to talk as if it is.) Most people will just go look for another product, or suffer with the annoyance and never be completely happy with the product. Developers and companies ought to be thankful that a few people are willing to make the effort to let them know about issues and concerns.

In this case, blocking MM in firewall is hardly a good solution, aside from the inconveniences that you mentined, it means that the system is wasting resources on repeated attempts that will never be successful. It can be remedied by a switch/option for particular features. If the user wants to turn on broadcasting, or checking for updates then expect call to those particular addresses. Otherwise, there will be no calls. I don't what circumstances would be needing a call to my wi-fi router control panel.
drakinite
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by drakinite »

Hey again. I do understand your concern, especially as some of MediaMonkey's code is still closed-source, so there's still a level of trust you need to put in the developers regarding security.

I can go on for a half hour on why MediaMonkey has no incentive to track people or try to mess with router control panel settings; but that would still be evading the main point. What was it that made you think MM5 was trying to access your router control panel?
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I uploaded many addons to MM's addon page, but not all of those were created by me. "By drakinite, Submitted by drakinite" means I made it on my own time. "By Ventis Media, Inc., Submitted by drakinite" means it may have been made by me or another MediaMonkey developer, so instead of crediting/thanking me, please thank the team. You can still ask me for support on any of our addons.
Peke
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by Peke »

Hi,
drakinite wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:56 pm What was it that made you think MM5 was trying to access your router control panel?
I agree, as I also asked it is easy to track what MM5 asks of router or where it tries to connect.

For that Matter I personally use free, but powerful https://www.binisoft.org/wfc.php which when you enable notification and strict policy (Windows firewall is on Low setting by default).

In addition to all claims I have tested all packets types using WireShark Each connection, IP address can be easily explained and each packet is clear what it do. There is no phoning home, or query Router, except those required so that other devices recognize MM5 on network or to get results of devices that reported as multicast/unicast on network.
Best regards,
Peke
MediaMonkey Team lead QA/Tech Support guru
Admin of Free MediaMonkey addon Site HappyMonkeying
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astro46
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by astro46 »

I am using Windows Firewall Notifier ( https://github.com/wokhansoft/WFN/relea ... v2.0-beta3 ) It came out before the binisoft program. I've looked at binisoft, it is tempting, but so far WFN is working ok, and I didnt want to invest the time in figuring and setting up a new firewall notifier.

As for MM5 trying to access my router: I was getting repeated calls to 192.168.0.1 from mediamonkeyengine.exe . that is the url for accessing the router control panel. I said this in my original post

the other url's, allegedly for mediacast devices, included 239.255.255.250, and 224.0.0.251. I also said this in my original post. I don't think I said MM5 was necessarily phoning home, but I didn't see why it needed to going on to the network when i didn't ask it to something network related. Many (most? all?) programs reveal themselves to be contacting who knows who for I don't see what reason (thank you WFN). Click on a setting, it's going online, save a doc, its going online, close the program, it's going online, etc. We see repeated news reports of personal data being taken without user consent (ie stolen). Who wouldn't be suspicious? I wasn't seeing this behavior in MM4.
Ludek
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Re: why is mm5 trying to access my router and multicast

Post by Ludek »

Hi,
MM5 does not touch router settings at all unless you right-click a media server and select "Configure remote access..."
in that case these confirmation and explanation dialog appears: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldi98pktnpusl ... 2.png?dl=0
and you need to click [Yes] for MM5 to proceeds with the configuration.

Can you confirm that after temporal delete of UPnP.dll (and not clicking the Cast icon to run mDNS discovery for Chromecasts) MM5 is no longer automatically accessing your router and the mutlicast addresses?

As for your objection that MM4 did not behave like this.
The difference I see is that in MM5 the servers are auto-looked up also on MM5 start to find other MM server instances availbale for syncing.

Your request for the option to disable all non-user initiated traffic is now tracked (and being evaluated) as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=17638
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