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POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:21 pm
by tbessie

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:08 am
by rovingcowboy
i was going to say waste of time but thought that some strange errors are found on different computers and only on them. so i said average since it might be needed by some but i get good rips all the time on it. of course i rip to wav files. 8)

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:00 am
by tbessie
rovingcowboy wrote:i was going to say waste of time but thought that some strange errors are found on different computers and only on them. so i said average since it might be needed by some but i get good rips all the time on it. of course i rip to wav files. 8)
I have ripped with 4 different CD and CD/DVD drives, on 2 or 3 different computers, and have found quite a few cases where EAC finds discrepencies between rips of the same CD on different drives, or consistent errors between rips on different computers, etc. And these are using some of the best drives in the industry, as far as I know (NEC's, the older/better Plextors, etc.).

That is, the error checking EAC does very often resolves errors that might otherwise result in inaccurate rips. And I'm talking about rips to WAVs, too (tho' I subsequently convert them to FLAC, usually).

- Tim

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:47 am
by DazB
Hi,

As the ripping is a time consuming process (that I only want to do once), I need to be confident/sure that I have the best possible results. "Crucial" isn't a word I would have chosen for this poll as I would prefer the MM team to spend its time making MM the best library manager and tagger out there. Matching the abilities of dBpoweramp & EAC would be a major undertaking and as the cost of one is negligible and the other is free I think it would be madness.

Daz

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:48 am
by Eyal
DazB wrote:I would prefer the MM team to spend its time making MM the best library manager and tagger out there. Matching the abilities of dBpoweramp & EAC would be a major undertaking and as the cost of one is negligible and the other is free I think it would be madness.
True.

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:26 am
by tbessie
DazB wrote:Hi,

As the ripping is a time consuming process (that I only want to do once), I need to be confident/sure that I have the best possible results. "Crucial" isn't a word I would have chosen for this poll as I would prefer the MM team to spend its time making MM the best library manager and tagger out there. Matching the abilities of dBpoweramp & EAC would be a major undertaking and as the cost of one is negligible and the other is free I think it would be madness.

Daz
I probably should have thought of something else to use instead of "Crucial", since I'm sure no user of MediaMonkey would drop it just for that. Maybe just "Really Important to Me"? Or maybe "PLEASE!" :-)

[EDIT] I just changed it to "PLEASE!" :-) I hope that doesn't upset anyone, changing the word after the poll. I think it is pretty equivilent in its urgency.

I would never expect the developers to try to match all the abilities of dBpoweramp & EAC; but I bet that - since what EAC actually *does* is very well known, then doing similar kinds of things (re-reading tracks any number of times and comparing results, checking the error codes when reading tracks and rereading them in software and comparing results, etc.... I know it's not trivial, but it could be figured out) wouldn't be madness. Also, adding Accuraterip ( http://www.accuraterip.com/ ) to it probably wouldn't be too hard, either (for all I know, it's already available as a plugin).

- Tim

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:52 pm
by nohitter151
You guys can track this via MM's internal bug tracker: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=243

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:11 am
by ummu
DazB wrote:I think it would be madness.
I doubt it would be madness. IMO, adopting some ideas from EAC to bolster MM's ripping mode would be quite a significant improvement and may not be a too demanding programming feat.

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:20 am
by DazB
Hi,

@ummu:
  1. Adding some features from EAC might seem logical and add sales appeal, but the dedicated tools are always going to be better.
  2. MM is going to finish up being a "Jack of all trades" and therefore master of none. Ventis don't have a big development team and the lifetime licensing will be their undoing. There are already many features that don't work properly, add more and the interrelationships become more complex, making bugs harder to fix.

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:14 am
by rovingcowboy
i like the componet systems in stereos for the same thing DazB if one unit and something breaks i lose use of the stereo until that one thing is fixed. if on the other hand the turntable or the tape deck break i only lose use of it not the whole system.

which is just so happens that right now i'm with out a turntable. but i can still here the radio which is how i use my mediamonkey jukebox so i am happy. but if that was an all in one unit i'd be one mad mediamonkey user then. :(

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:36 pm
by MusicBringer
Eyal wrote:
DazB wrote:I would prefer the MM team to spend its time making MM the best library manager and tagger out there. Matching the abilities of dBpoweramp & EAC would be a major undertaking and as the cost of one is negligible and the other is free I think it would be madness.
True.
Me Too. I agree with this. I would prefer the MM team to spend its time making MM the best library manager.

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:30 pm
by tbessie
DazB wrote:Hi,

@ummu:
  1. Adding some features from EAC might seem logical and add sales appeal, but the dedicated tools are always going to be better.
  2. MM is going to finish up being a "Jack of all trades" and therefore master of none. Ventis don't have a big development team and the lifetime licensing will be their undoing. There are already many features that don't work properly, add more and the interrelationships become more complex, making bugs harder to fix.
I would agree, except for one thing... and it's an important one. Since ripping my entire library to FLAC, and then the FLAC bug that MM had destroying the integrity of these files (they are still playable, but are not accurate copies of the CDs, having had several chunks of their first 1-20 samples destroyed by the bug), I have to RERIP MY ENTIRE COLLECTION, and match up every one of these CDs with my MM library.

We may have a tool to do this in that plugin that lets you copy over library tags to a set of existing tracks... but TRY DOING THIS WITH 7000-10000 TRACKS. Extremely tedious, error-prone, etc.

If MM is my ripper as well as my library manager, the CD checksum used to match up a CD with it's track listing is the same program, and this assignment of track tags happens automatically instead of me having to do each CD by hand and eye.

- Tim

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:17 pm
by DazB
Hi,

@tbessie: Yes, it could be scripted, but imagine being able to choose which "component" rips the files...and using a batch ripper would make more sense.

Daz

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:18 pm
by tbessie
DazB wrote:Hi,

@tbessie: Yes, it could be scripted, but imagine being able to choose which "component" rips the files...and using a batch ripper would make more sense.

Daz
Daz...

Which aspect could be scripted? Whatever ripping method I use, if you're talking about scripting the matching up of CD checksum to tracks in my MM library, I'd still have to have MM GET the checksum from the CD in the first place (or get it from some stored location associated with the tracks/album).

In any of the above cases, it would have to be a custom solution; I don't want to have to write it myself. The MM bug caused the problem, and I'd like an MM feature to make recovering from it very easy. If that takes someone else (not me) writing a wonderous script to do this, and it being incorporated into part of MM, so be it, but I think the MM Devs should add such functionality to MM in some way, to make up for their earlier mistake.

My 2 cents. :-)

- tim

Re: POLL: More Powerful Ripping? (like EAC)

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:46 am
by tbessie
*bump*