Intelligent music player

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Timelezz

Intelligent music player

Post by Timelezz »

I believe that the ultimate music player plays the songs that you want to hear, without user interference. But one does not want to hear his favorite dance music while trying to sleep. Or waking up with heavy metal, although you love this kind of music during the day.

Currently there is not such a mode of auto-playing out of your database. For the moment MM is playing on the basis of play-lists (which are automatic or fixed). It would be great if the Player is more intuitive.

> Enqueue songs based on the type of previous song(s).
> Enqueue songs based on the time of the day
> Enqueue songs based on the mood of the listener
> any other parameters?

I'm not the only person that longs for this kind of intelligent, intuitive player. Blogger Pablo Fernandez imagined this as his music player he dreams about at night. He points out that "This music player I’d like to have would not compute how much I like a song, like Amarok, but how probable it is that I’ll like it when it plays that song."

The plug-in "Last.fm Node", gives users a first try to automatically enqueue songs based that are similar, according to Last.fm. This is far from perfect and leaves out a lot of the other mentioned parameters. It is a great start, and I think MM developers should take a look into this. As far I know, there is not such a player around, while I imaging that a lot of people would love such a player. It would be great if you do not have to have 'knowledge about your database' but can give imput of your mod and the database enqueues songs for you, which you probably will love.

Pablo Fernandez explanation of such an intelligent music player: http://pupeno.com/blog/an-intelligent-music-player/
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by rovingcowboy »

with auto playlists you can set up your list to pick from tons of rules and use randomize the list.
with the windows scheduler script from peke you can set up the playlists to play at the time of day you want with the windows task scheduler, i do that for a fully automated jukebox that works like a radio station.
8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy A51 5G Android ) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Onweerwolf »

I'm with you timelezz, this is what I am searching for as well.

A few things that might help getting towards this goal:

1) It would be nice if we could sort playlists by custom_genre, meaning the user defines his preferred order of genres, gives this custom search a name and it will then show up in the sorting window when you make a playlist. What you could do with this is for instance the following: imagine you spend 90 minutes at home between your alarm clock ringing and leaving for work/school in the morning and you wish to hear music during that time but the music has to have a certain flow without being static. for simplicity, say you wish to wake up to 30 minutes of ambient, then 30 minutes of normal rock while you take a shower & get dressed and finally 30 minutes of death metal while you enjoy breakfast and get ready to leave.

With the above function one could:

A) Make a custom_genre search called 'wake up' that sorts like this: ambient->rock->death metal->any other genre

B) Make 3 playlists, each for one of the 3 genres that takes 30 minutes worth of music in this genre and defines it by your other preferred criteria (rating = X, haven't played in X days, etc.)

C) Make a 4th playlist that references the first 3 and have it sort by your custom_genre sort called 'wake up'

D) Have the alarm clock script set to playing the 4th playlist each morning at your desired time.

Result: each morning you'll wake up to music you'll like at that time of the day and it will progress with the same flow each day, without being static because the 3 original playlists select other songs each time. :D

2) This is an unfinished idea. MM DB remembers the time of play for each time that you played a song. It should be possible, either natively or through a script, to calculate at which time of day you prefer to hear a certain song. The data you get from this calculation could be used as criteria for smart playlists and/or as sorting options for playlists.

There are probably more ways to finetune things like this. Bottomline is though: it requires a lot of user data input, either manually or automatically.
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Onweerwolf
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Onweerwolf »

Another feature that would come in handy here is sorting by playlist in the case of a playlists that references other playlists.
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Lowlander
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Lowlander »

Auto-DJ goes a long way. My issue is that I'd like easier switching of playlist for Auto-DJ. I image an icon in the toolbar to access quick switch as well as from the command line to start MediaMonkey with specific playlist loaded in Auto-DJ.

The idea to control what plays by time of day is interesting. It could either be done through Auto-DJ or Auto-Playlists I imagine. I do believe that most other suggestions could be addressed with Auto-Playlists. It would just require many additional criteria to be available.
Onweerwolf wrote:Bottomline is though: it requires a lot of user data input, either manually or automatically.
Which is why I'm afraid it won't be high priority as few users would be willing to put the effort in for this.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Onweerwolf »

Lowlander wrote:Auto-DJ goes a long way. My issue is that I'd like easier switching of playlist for Auto-DJ. I image an icon in the toolbar to access quick switch as well as from the command line to start MediaMonkey with specific playlist loaded in Auto-DJ.
I started a topic about that in the script forum some time ago: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46646

So far, no one has shown any interest though. :cry:
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Lowlander
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Lowlander »

I wouldn't have a huge problem with a script being able to do this, although I do think it would be good to include as a native feature.

One thing I wonder though is how many people hand pick what they play, how many people have it automated through Auto-DJ/Auto-Playlist, and how many people just play they're whole library. Unless I listen to new tracks for quality control I never (ok once in a blue moon I will select a specific song) pick a song to play. So any improvements (for me quick access to Auto-DJ playlists) to make automated play easier would be very welcome to me. This also includes expanded criteria for Auto-Playlists.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
Timelezz

Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Timelezz »

Guys, you have great ideas. But the kind of player I am talking about is more sophisticated and does not find its equivalent in auto-playlists. Let's make clear what I am dreaming about - In fact I think it is not fiction at all.

DEFINITION: With an Intelligent Music Player, I mean a player that enqueues tracks with the least user intervention needed. The player is intuitive, uses historical data, and combines it with current information. The result is a playlist with a high probability that user appreciates what is played at that time. The main principle is "Less user intervention". Such a player does rely less on tagging and auto-playlists as they require user interventions.

Note: Some people want hand pick song, others want an automated player. This is easy to overcome when the Intelligence comes into play when the 'Now Playing" list is empty.

The parameters is uses to enqueue:
> Enqueue songs based on the type of previous song(s).
> Enqueue songs based on the time of the day
> Enqueue songs based on the mood of the listener
> any other parameters?


So, Where does the intelligence come from?

> Music Data from Last.fm (tags, similar songs, etc)
> User data from Last.fm (favorite music style)
> (limited) User input (e.g. the user inserts that the playlist should be more Jazzy by increasing the tag 'Jazz'. Or decreasing the feeling of 'loneliness' in the playlist. (a nice, simple, slick, design could be implemented)
> MM usage patterns: MM already remembers the previous time(s) a song was played
> Web cam: registration of facial expressions. Happy/Sad/Worry, and adjust enqueue list by means of intelligent adaptation to the user's mood.

That is what I envision as a music revolution. Maybe it sounds like Star Trek, but many Star Trek fiction became reality already :)
Lowlander
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Lowlander »

You'd still have to tag the songs as that would be a criteria for any automation. There are more automated options like audio finger printing (MusicIP Tagger) and other options like Genre Finder, but in the end the first requirement of an automated system would be that your files are tagged well.

Secondly all you mention are criteria which perfectly fits with Auto-Playlists as they're based on criteria. Of course the available criteria would need to be expanded to meet your dreams.

Your mentioned parameters require user input to create these parameters as well as tags in the files to match the parameters. Even if Last.FM integration were to be used the files would need to be tagged for this to work.

Auto-Playlists would probably also fit better as you can make as many as you want. If you would set parameters (criteria) in the player you'd have to redo them each time you change your listening behavior or if you're in a multi-user environment.
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Lowlander »

Oh, Time of Day would of course be difficult to handle in Auto-Playlists as they don't use the time component. This however could be handle by expanded Auto-DJ options where you could indicate what Auto-Playlist you want to play during what time period.
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rovingcowboy
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by rovingcowboy »

Timelezz wrote:Guys, you have great ideas. But the kind of player I am talking about is more sophisticated and does not find its equivalent in auto-playlists. Let's make clear what I am dreaming about - In fact I think it is not fiction at all.

DEFINITION: With an Intelligent Music Player, I mean a player that enqueues tracks with the least user intervention needed. The player is intuitive, uses historical data, and combines it with current information. The result is a playlist with a high probability that user appreciates what is played at that time. The main principle is "Less user intervention". Such a player does rely less on tagging and auto-playlists as they require user interventions.

Note: Some people want hand pick song, others want an automated player. This is easy to overcome when the Intelligence comes into play when the 'Now Playing" list is empty.

The parameters is uses to enqueue:
> Enqueue songs based on the type of previous song(s).
> Enqueue songs based on the time of the day
> Enqueue songs based on the mood of the listener
> any other parameters?


So, Where does the intelligence come from?

> Music Data from Last.fm (tags, similar songs, etc)
> User data from Last.fm (favorite music style)
> (limited) User input (e.g. the user inserts that the playlist should be more Jazzy by increasing the tag 'Jazz'. Or decreasing the feeling of 'loneliness' in the playlist. (a nice, simple, slick, design could be implemented)
> MM usage patterns: MM already remembers the previous time(s) a song was played
> Web cam: registration of facial expressions. Happy/Sad/Worry, and adjust enqueue list by means of intelligent adaptation to the user's mood.

That is what I envision as a music revolution. Maybe it sounds like Star Trek, but many Star Trek fiction became reality already :)
MIT is only just working on the robot that can tell what our face means when it makes certian movements.
japan has got leaps and bounds to figure out for their walking robot. poker playing robots have been around since the late 1980's there are many working on AI systems, but one that can read our mind and pick the type of songs we want to here is just not in the works now. but only because you just brought it to everyones attention. it might be started in a while. my suspect for starting it would be the RIAA so they can put a toll system in to the robot and have it pay every time a song is played. which of course would do a perfect job of rendering the robot unliked and unused.

as for star trek being fiction? your in trouble i'm going to sic the tribbles after you they want fed ever hour. at least a bowl of rice with some water.
8)
roving cowboy / keith hall. My skins http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =9&t=16724 for some help check on Monkey's helpful messages at http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 4008#44008 MY SYSTEMS.1.Jukebox WinXp pro sp 3 version 3.5 gigabyte mb. 281 GHz amd athlon x2 240 built by me.) 2.WinXP pro sp3, vers 2.5.5 and vers 3.5 backup storage, shuttle 32a mb,734 MHz amd athlon put together by me.) 3.Dell demension, winxp pro sp3, mm3.5 spare jukebox.) 4.WinXp pro sp3, vers 3.5, dad's computer bought from computer store. )5. Samsung Galaxy A51 5G Android ) 6. amd a8-5600 apu 3.60ghz mm version 4 windows 7 pro bought from computer store.
Timelezz

Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Timelezz »

@lowlander, You keep coming up with auto-playlist, while I aim for a system with limited user interventions. That is why this topic (=my request) is about. Auto-playlist are by definition out of the question.
Lowlander wrote:You'd still have to tag the songs as that would be a criteria for any automation.
Incorrect, 'LastFM Node' looks up to Last.fm and enqueues songs based on the commmon tags on Last.fm. This envisioned Intelligent Music Player consults a central database with tags for your songs. Thus, there is no need to tag your songs at all!
rovingcowboy wrote:MIT is only just working on the robot that can tell what our face means when it makes certian movements.
I think we are closer to this than you might expect. Look at Microsoft's Natal project with facial and motion recognition on the fly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U
MM has an advantage that it may use more time to compute the emotion than a game console. Besides, voice recognition would be possible too. So you can exclaim: "Mediamonkey, please play more Jazz songs", and MM adds more Jazz to 'Now Playing'.
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Dreadlau »

Lowlander wrote:Auto-DJ goes a long way. My issue is that I'd like easier switching of playlist for Auto-DJ. I image an icon in the toolbar to access quick switch...
Yes, me too. As it is now it's very tedious to change the auto dj playlist.
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Lowlander
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by Lowlander »

Tagging is essential and if it can be done fully automated is something I'm not 100% sure about. MusicIP Tagger is an interesting development as it uses an analysis of the audio to determine tags, but still requires user interaction at this point. Anyway I think it's good to be involved with tagging as to get the best results, automated systems tend to have some failure rate in getting things right.

What you propose is either impossible, a fully automated system that plays whatever song you desire at that moment or a system that requires criteria from the user to determine what should be played. The latter is exactly what Auto-Playlists are at the moment. Based on some criteria from the user they play what you want. They lack criteria at the moment to fully achieve what you want and there needs to be some interaction with an online source to be able to determine what songs should play based on previous songs. I think here a good solution is to have Last.FM (or other system) pick from either the library or an (auto)playlist (to limit results). I believe there is already a script that can use Last.FM to select similar songs.

This means the following things are required:
- Improve Auto-DJ (add time of day option/easy playlist switching)
- Improve Auto-Playlist (add more criteria)
- Add functionality to let online source determine which tracks get added to Auto-DJ/Now Playing (native/scripts)
- Auto-Tagging (a la MusicBrainz Picard) (see MusicBrainz Tagger, MusicIP Tagger)
Lowlander (MediaMonkey user since 2003)
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Re: Intelligent music player

Post by nohitter151 »

I think this is an excellent idea for an add-on but I think it's hard to justify why it should be added directly into MM itself. The developers only have limited time and resources, and I think that this would be quite a large undertaking, which would come at the expense of other more needed features.
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