Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

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kawika
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by kawika »

Hello,

I'm having what seems to be the strangest problem between some of my files and MMW. Per recommendation, I was using MMW to edit and add metadata to individual files. But, I noticed that if I go to the file directly in Windows, there is a bunch of missing metadata in the actual file. Specifically, Artist and Title fields get limited to thirty characters, Disc, Composer, and Album Artist all get left blank if I pull up the tags by right-clicking on them. Due to this problem, I started tagging the files directly through the Edit ID tags function in Windows 10, and also began using MMW specific tags to fill in original artist, original date, and original title fields in MMW. If I alter the tags on the file directly, sometimes the opposite happens where all the Detail data disappears in MMW, the thirty character limit in Artist and Title pops up and disc #, album artist, composer, and lyricist data all disappears (but, if I check the file in Windows directly, all the info is still present).

Another REALLY weird thing that happens is that, if I click on the album artist field in MMW, the Artist field info automatically populates the album artist line and I have to delete the extra info (I list group and group member info separated by semicolons in the Artist field so I can search for specific artists across all files, ideally). Note: If I alter the tag data in MMW, so far, it stays if I look up the data through MMW, but the MMW specific tags no longer appear if I look at the tags directly through Windows.

I would love to be able to end this weird tug of war. I tried updating the tags through Tools>Edit Tags>Update Tags, but the problem persists.
Lowlander
Posts: 56465
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Lowlander »

Which Build (Help > About) of MediaMonkey 5 and what File Type(s) are you tagging?
Erwin Hanzl
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Location: Vienna

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Erwin Hanzl »

It's always been like this, I've been using MM since 2011.
The problem is with Windows-Explorer.
There is, among other things, no field "Occasion".
Some field contents are transferred to the "Comment" field.
Even Windows Media Player (WMP) has no "Occasion" field.
I've stopped using Windows Explorer to look at the properties of any file. Doesn't help.

This could be continued indefinitely, e.g.:
MP3Tag uses the separator "\\" as "Multi-Field".
Mediamonkey uses the semicolon character for this.

Das war schon immer so, seit 2011 verwende ich MM.
Das Problem liegt am Windows-Explorer.
Dort gibt es unter anderem, auch kein Feld "Gelegenheit".
Manche Feldinhalte werden in das Feld "Kommentar" übertragen.
Auch Windows-Media-Player (WMP) hat kein Feld "Gelegenheit".
Ich habe mir abgewöhnt, mittels Windows-Explorer die Eigenschaften irgendwelcher Dateien anzusehen. Bringt nichts.

Das könnte man unendlich fortsetzen: z.B.:
MP3Tag verwendet als "Multi-Field" das Trennzeichen "\\".
Mediamonkey verwendet dazu das Zeichen "Semikolon".
MMW 4.1.31.1919 Gold-Standardinstallation
kawika
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by kawika »

Lowlander wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:49 pm Which Build (Help > About) of MediaMonkey 5 and what File Type(s) are you tagging?
MMW Build is 5.0.1.2433 and I'm tagging mp3 files.
One thing that may be happening is that fields I convert to mp3 from FLAC seem to transfer all the data just fine if I fill out all the tags before converting them. It's difficult to confirm, but I think the problem is happening to files that exist as mp3s when I try to alter/update the metadata. I wish I had FLAC files of all my mp3s, but I just don't, mostly because many of the files I only have as mp3 were ripped and converted prior to my knowledge of FLAC. So, the mp3s are just kind of irreplaceable at this point.
Lowlander
Posts: 56465
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Lowlander »

There is a new version of MediaMonkey: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... =8811&sd=d
kawika
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by kawika »

Updated to new version. Same problem.
Lowlander
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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Lowlander »

Can you create a copy of the MP3 file you've edited in MediaMonkey and shows truncated tags in File Explorer and then view that copy in MediaMonkey? Does it also show truncated tags in MediaMonkey for the copy?
kawika
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by kawika »

I suspect creating a copy would still do the same thing, but I've found a way to work around this.

I created a blank/new folder on my desktop and I move the files into it. Then, I run an update in MMW, which then tells me it can't find the files (I restrict access to specific directories so that I don't double up files stored as FLAC and mp3). I tell MMW to go ahead and remove the files from the library, then go to the "New Folder" and edit what I need. Then, I move the newly edited files into the media folder that MMW pulls its library from.

It's not an elegant solution, but it works.
Lowlander
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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Lowlander »

kawika wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:27 pmI suspect creating a copy would still do the same thing
Don't know, which is why I suggested this test. The problem you're having is not experienced by others, so something very specific in your setup is causing issues.
kawika
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by kawika »

Lowlander wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:32 pm
kawika wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:27 pmI suspect creating a copy would still do the same thing
Don't know, which is why I suggested this test. The problem you're having is not experienced by others, so something very specific in your setup is causing issues.
Begging your pardon, but I'm not the only person who has this problem unless Erwin Hanzl is incorrect about this being a consistent limitation. I would guess that not many people are listing or editing entries over thirty characters, so it's not being noticed. Also, there was the wholly insufficient suggestion of not worrying about using Windows to edit or correct when the conflict occurs, because MMW will display things correctly. Just leaving the tags alone isn't a good practice for me, because I'd rather not transfer files with truncated or missing tags to my backup drives.
Erwin Hanzl
Posts: 1189
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:47 am
Location: Vienna

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Erwin Hanzl »

but I'm not the only person who has this problem
There is no problem, but the correct interpretation of Windows Explorer causes you difficulties.

I tested again with the following parameters:
Title: 89 characters ... 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789
Artist(s): 25 characters ... Zillertaler Schürzenjäger
AlbumName: 26 characters ... 3 Grosse aus dem Zillertal
Album Artist(s): 7 characters ... Sampler

Filename: <Title> - <Artist> <Album>
Filename: 149 characters
123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 - Zillertaler Schürzenjäger 3 Grosse aus dem Zillertal.flac

In Windows Explorer/Properties it looks like this:
The window size limits the display of the corresponding fields marked with ....
Click in the appropriate field and see what happens.

Image

See on the picture: "Veröffentlichungsdatum". I did NOT enter this in the properties in MM5.


I work with the following tag settings:
Image

My summary:
Windows Explorer/Properties has fields that correspond and a great many that don't, such as all of MediaMonkey's custom fields, or others from MP3Tag as well.
But the files have all the properties defined in MediaMonkey, which are also copied/moved to other folders using Windows Explorer.

Therefore I do NOT check the properties with Windows Explorer.
Sorry, but I am at the end of my explanations.
Maybe another user will be able to convince you.
MMW 4.1.31.1919 Gold-Standardinstallation
Lowlander
Posts: 56465
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 5:53 pm
Location: MediaMonkey 5

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Lowlander »

Did you try the copy test? If it fails too, please attach the file to a Support Ticket for developer analysis.
snowleopard
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:19 pm

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by snowleopard »

My music library consists of 2 things. CD's I have ripped and digital music I cannot buy on CD. Then I also have some vinyl.

As for the CD's I use DB Power AMP for ripping the discs and it lets me pull album information from 5 or 6 different sources then I can review it and if it is accurate, then I rip the tracks to lossless flac. It fills in almost every field in the meta data.

Then I can convert them to mp3's and all the meta data carries over. But I never use mp3's.
Erwin Hanzl
Posts: 1189
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:47 am
Location: Vienna

Re: Metadata Tug of War between MMW and Windows Files

Post by Erwin Hanzl »

Another problem with Windows Explorer/Properties: Multi-Fiield GENRE

viewtopic.php?p=494552#p494552
Re: Multiple genres not written to file using ID3v2.4

Unread post by MiPi » 15 Feb 2022, 10:55

It is issue with all versions of Windows, bad, it is still not fixed even in Windows 11 :-/. For me it behaves the same in Win10, it reads only first genre. For some reason they still cannot read multiple genres from TCON tag. There was problem with genre tag in ID3v2.3, because specification was not clear and not kept by applications, they wrote genres there in many ways, MM wrote it as one string separated by ";", it was the most compatible a readable for any other app. ID3v2.4 specification is already clear and supports multiple string genres separated by zero byte, applications like MediaMonkey, MusicBee, Foobar2000, MP3Tag, can handle it without problems, but Windows not.
Please forget Windows Explorer/Properties to match tags.
MMW 4.1.31.1919 Gold-Standardinstallation
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