MediaMonkey forum

I'm just testing many features to optimize the german localization.
As Barry4679 wrote in
https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 15#p477115
"foo bar" doesn't find "foo barman" as described in the tooltips.
That thread gives no explanation.
What thought error am I making when I type "Desmond Dek" and expect Mr. Dekker to be selected?
Is there any example, that explains the "String1 String2" option a little clearer?

Hi,
I am not able replicate your behavior.

Search results really depends on your Search settings as seen here:


Please also check https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index. ... Search/5.0 in case your needs are already covered?

If not let us know what is missing.

Timo_Beil wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:40 am I'm just testing many features to optimize the german localization.
As Barry4679 wrote in
https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewt ... 15#p477115
"foo bar" doesn't find "foo barman" as described in the tooltips.
That thread gives no explanation.
What thought error am I making when I type "Desmond Dek" and expect Mr. Dekker to be selected?
Is there any example, that explains the "String1 String2" option a little clearer?

The issue that I was making, in the extract that you quoted, was due to bug that has now been fixed, as indicated by the last post in the thread by Ludek.

The thing to know about "String1 String2" queries is this:

• if the phrase is not quoted, MM looks for each string separately ... ie bob mar finds the track titled "Take a message to Mary" by Bob Dylan, because both phrases can be found somewhere within the track's metadata..

• this is different if the the phrase is quoted .. MM looks for the connected phrase fragment, not the individual strings.. ie. "bob mar" does not find the above track, and is a better strategy if you are looking for Bob Marley

Just in case Peke's diagram is not immediately clear to you, what is important is that the Search mode option needs to be set to one of the options like "Ignore diacritics/match beginning of words"

The options which mention "whole words" would not find Dekker if you typed just dek.





"

Thanks for the explanation.
I have now understood it like this:
Without doublequotes MM searches the strings incoherently in all fields, whereas terms in doublequotes must be in ONE field, exactly as written (case sensitive).
I had set the search options to "beginning of words", but "Desmond Dek" returns no results ("Desmond Dekker" does).
Sure, I would search differently, but I just want to be able to understand and comprehend the tooltips, so I can maybe write a less confusing translation there.


EDIT:
I've got it.
It only works with "respect diacritics" in the search options. Is it supposed to be like that?

Timo_Beil wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:06 am I have now understood it like this:
Without doublequotes MM searches the strings incoherently in all fields, whereas terms in doublequotes must be in ONE field, exactly as written (case sensitive).

Close.
Your only error is that it is case insensitive.
I think that there was some discussion about it being case sensitive in that old thread that you quoted from, but that was a bug .. since fixed.
The help text should be more specific, because one would expect that quoted criteria would be case sensistive.

Timo_Beil wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:06 am It only works with "respect diacritics" in the search options. Is it supposed to be like that?

I haven't tested the other options, because diacritics are not a big thing down this end of the world. .. Actually it a new word that MM has taught me. I had never seen it before.

The option set is a mess ... I don't know why the "with diacritics" and the "without diacritics" sub-options don't exactly match each other.
You could try the "respect diacritics / match within words" option if they are important to you.... although the inference is that search method will be slower.

[UPDATE] .. I assumed that I knew what you going to say ... so didn't read it carefully enough.
With MM5 setup for an English speaking user the option that works is "IGNORE diacritics/Match beginning.."
There is no option for "Respect diacritics / Match beginning.."

Typo?

Also I don't see this

I had set the search options to "beginning of words", but "Desmond Dek" returns no results ("Desmond Dekker" does).

I should work OK if option is "Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words

Hi,
Hmm, you both are somewhat right added https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19430 to clarify all possible cases.

Let me know if I missed something.

Now I'm completely confused.

I'd tested the behaviour with the 4 Search Options.
To avoid errors due to the localization, I have used the english version:

1. Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words
1.1 "Desmond" -> ok
1.2 "desmond" -> no results
1.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
1.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

2. Ignore diacritics /Search whole words only
2.1 "Desmond" -> ok
2.2 "desmond" -> no results
2.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
2.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

3. Respect diacritics / Match within words
3.1 "Desmond" -> ok
3.2 "desmond" -> ok
3.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
3.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> ok

4. Respect diacritics / Search whole words only
4.1 "Desmond" -> ok
4.2 "desmond" -> ok
4.3 "desmond Dekker" -> Only a .flac file (1 of 22 tracks)
4.4 "Desmond Dek" -> no results


We see that 1. and 2. are completely the same.
1.2 seems to be case sensitive, but it is not, as 1.3 shows.
3.2 and 4.2 don't show this effect.
Only 3. is logical.
4.3 very curious (remains even after db maintenance).

EDIT: it is not the file format.
In my Pink Floyd folder there are 243 well tagged files. "Pink Floyd" returns 77.

Hello Timo,

And now type everything normally WITHOUT quotes. Then you get different results. (See yellow search box.)
Und jetzt geben Sie alles nochmals OHNE Anführungszeichen ein. Dann kommen Sie teils wieder zu anderen Ergebnissen.
(Siehe gelbes Suchfeld.)

Erwin Hanzl wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:49 am Hello Timo,
And now type everything normally WITHOUT quotes. Then you get different results. (See yellow search box.)

Sure, that is not to be expected otherwise. But I would like to explain the behavior of the " " search in the German tooltips.

Supplement to 4.3:
MM searches only in the file name.
After changing it to:
"01 - Desmond Dekker - For Once In My Life.mp3" the title appears in the results.

Hi,
Looks like problem is with quotes.
First limited search to Artist, Title, Album, Album Artist, Genre.

When I search [Riblja Čorba] then I get correct results:


But if I Search ["Riblja Čorba"] then I get no results even Artist is exact match:


Also tooltip help do not mention different behavior according to Search Options so user can be easily confused.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I can't replicate Timo behavior for 1, 2 For me in all 4 cases it shows results (eg. case insensitive), same I can't replicate 4.3.

Possibly two unnecessary questions, BUT:
1. When was the last time you did an "Add/Rescan files to the Library"?
2. Do you "continuously" monitor the folders?

Eventuell zwei unnötige Frage, ABER:
1. wann habt ihr zuletzt ein "Add/Rescan files to the Library" gemacht?
2. Überwacht ihr die Ordner "ständig"?

To make things more clear

Search bug is separated in https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19436
and
https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19430 is left as is to add/review adding all search case options for both respect/ignore diacritics settings.

Sorry for confusion, if you find any otehr case I missed let us know.

Erwin Hanzl wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:54 pm Possibly two unnecessary questions, BUT:
1. When was the last time you did an "Add/Rescan files to the Library"?
2. Do you "continuously" monitor the folders?

If you asked me then
1. clean rebuild library by re-scanning, answer is 2004
2. only some as once tracks gets in its permanent archive place it would be pain in the constanntly haveing monitoring folder with 150k+ of tracks that have not changed 18 years.

If question was not for me then, sorry

Timo_Beil wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:25 am Now I'm completely confused.

I'd tested the behaviour with the 4 Search Options.
To avoid errors due to the localization, I have used the english version:

1. Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words
1.1 "Desmond" -> ok
1.2 "desmond" -> no results
1.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
1.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

2. Ignore diacritics /Search whole words only
2.1 "Desmond" -> ok
2.2 "desmond" -> no results
2.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
2.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

[snip]

We see that 1. and 2. are completely the same.
1.2 seems to be case sensitive, but it is not, as 1.3 shows.
3.2 and 4.2 don't show this effect.
Only 3. is logical.
4.3 very curious (remains even after db maintenance).

I have only tested the Ignore diacritic" options.
I agree you comments about 1.x and 2.x ... I think that they are illogical too, but I can partially explain them.

#1 is case INsensitive as I said earlier
The reason that 1.2 gives no results is nothing to do with case ... it is because that is a single "word", no embedded blanks.
The double quote search option only works with phrases ... something that is an really stupid unnecessary gotya IMO .. and that fact is not well explained in the tool tip, and is ignored completely in the "help" text .. hint: you can quickly get to the relevant help text by pressing the F1 key, while the cursor inside in the search control.

It is what you report for 1.4 which seems wrong to me. I think that search should have returned results.
Are you sure that yo typed the closing double quote?
Which tag is Desmond Dekker in? Check Tools|options|library|search ... make sure that you have not deselected the relevant tags in the "global search" list in the bottom half of that panel.

Your result for 2.4 also seems incorrect to me.
In the confusing Alice In Wonderland world of MM, the double quoting option seems to override the "search Whole Words" vs "Match Beginning" setting ... So I would have suspected both 1.4 and 2.4 would have found your tracks. .. I am on version 5.0.4.2667.


When you did your tests, did you close the search control (auto-opening) search box, before typing the new test?

I use a brand new database, containing only the Desmond folder.
Only a few unimportant fields are excluded from search.
Yes, I'd closed and reopened the seach field every time.
To show 4.3 (search only in path), I made a little video
Two filenames contain - Desmond Dekker - . Only these files are found with " ".
Removing "Path" from the searched fields, no results are shown.