Shuffle not working as it used to [#18988]

[tbm72]

I updated MM5 to the latest build (5.1.0.2805) but shuffle is behaving differently than it's always done for me. In the latest version if I have shuffle enabled and then double click any track, it doesn't begin with the track I just double clicked, but rather starts playing some completely random track to begin with.

In my previous build (5.0.4.2690) and all other versions I've ever used, if I enable shuffle and then double click any track to start it off, it will play that track I initially chose and obviously shuffle onto another random track after.

Is this a bug or has the way shuffle works changed? If I'm using shuffle I like to choose the starting track and have it shuffle after my initial choice has finished. That's the way it's always worked for me and I'm so used to it - is there a way to bring this behaviour back?

[tbm72]

Looking through the forum I now see it looks like shuffle is being overhauled and updated in progress. I didn't realise this which is why it seems so odd to me to change the shuffle behaviour it's always had!

As a longtime MM user can I please request this particular feature is retained or at least made available as a menu option? I'm so used to leaving shuffle on but wanting to choose the track I want to play first - I can't get used to completely random shuffling from the beginning!

In fact I've just realised I tried the alpha a few weeks back but assumed something was messed up on my system as I was clicking tracks and something else was playing (because of the new shuffle behaviour which I didn't realise had changed). So I reverted to my previous build which I was going to stick with but now I see it's just a change with shuffle and not something wrong with my library!

[Rob_S]

You are right, this is a fairly significant "feature" change, with little information provided as to how it is supposed to work.

The old way shuffle mode merely played tracks at random from now playing. You could not go back or forwards because it did not keep track of what it played last, and had no idea what it played next the last time. You could not see what was going to play next. You could not rearrange the shuffled order, because there was no fixed sequence. I think also it would often replay some tracks before it finished playing all the tracks in the list once.

So many users requested a more standard method which effectively randomizes or "shuffles" the entire list, and then plays it in the displayed order. Now you can reorganized a shuffled now playing list, add tracks where you want, remove some or add some. More importantly, you can see what will actually play next, and you can go forwards and backwards in a predictable manner. Go back will actually play the previous track again, and go forth plays the next displayed track. This seems all good to me.

In the latest beta version 2805 , in shuffled or unshuffled mode, I CAN double click a track in the main window, and it is added below the currently playing track and starts playing right away. This is what you want it to do right??

See this thread for why this was not happening in some cases viewtopic.php?t=104269

You need to check that your default (double-click) action options under player , playback rules, and os integration is set correctly "play selected files only" and "Play now"

It should be noted we actually did have something like this before with the option to "randomize" the "Now Playing" list and then play it unshuffled. I think many users were not aware of this option, and thus requested this current change.

Unfortunately this feature development seems to have been sidetracked by a discussion of how to revert the shuffled "Now Playing" to its "Original" unshuffled order. I have no idea why this is so important. Now playing list is by design rather temporary, so it makes little sense for it to possess any sort of "original order" because anytime you add or delete tracks or play some other group of tracks the "original" is lost anyway.

It would make more sense to me to simply save any desired "play order" to a new playlist for reliable recall (maybe add this to context menu), or better yet provide ways to save named queues which would include also which was the last played track, so you can start over where you left off.

If you want to follow the internal discussions on this subject see this page - with comments below description.

https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=18988

This is an important change, so do chime in with what is important to you while they are still working on it.

[tbm72]

You need to check that your default (double-click) action options under player , playback rules, and os integration is set correctly "play selected files only" and "Play now"

Thanks so much for your comprehensive reply Rob! That did the job and it's working as it did before again. That setting must have somehow gotten reset recently. I'll have a good read and test of the new shuffle feature and come back with any suggestions.

Thanks again!

[tbm72]

Hmm, maybe I haven't quite got it solved after all. Here's an example of what I want to happen with shuffle:

Let's say in the main display I have a specific album with all its tracks in view. What I want from shuffle is that I double click on a certain track (say track 7) and it starts playing that one, then when it's finished it randomly shuffles to another track in that album, and so on until all tracks in the album have played randomly.

So I've set both options as follows:

Player>Default 'play now' option: Clear list & play selected and subsequent
Playback rules>'Play now' action: Clear list & play selected and subsequent

But what happens with those options applied is if I double click on (say) track 7 it doesn't play track 7, it picks a different random track. From my selected rules above I thought it would:

1) Clear list (clear the now playing list)
2) Play selected (track 7 which I selected)
3) Play subsequent (randomly shuffle the remaining album tracks)

Am I understanding the options wrong?

[Rob_S]

I believe this is a bug in the current implementation.

We might also need an option to play now the double-clicked track, but also add the entire album to the now playing instead of just "subsequent"

[Peke]

I believe this is a bug in the current implementation.

I agree, but I think it is bound to evolve into something great. ATM Shuffle On/Off is useless to me, as it looses carefully selected and sorted tracks whenever I turn ON shuffle in player.

[tbm72]

We might also need an option to play now the double-clicked track, but also add the entire album to the now playing instead of just "subsequent"

My example of double clicking a track from within a specific album to start a shuffled sequence was just one way I'd like to use it. It's more likely to be useful for me from within a playlist (or whatever is displayed on the main screen, e.g. from a list of search results, a list of tracks from a specific artist etc.)

Don't know if that's feasible but it sounds like shuffle should hopefully evolve into a much improved feature!

[Rob_S]

I believe this is a bug in the current implementation.

I agree, but I think it is bound to evolve into something great. ATM Shuffle On/Off is useless to me, as it looses carefully selected and sorted tracks whenever I turn ON shuffle in player.

So out of curiosity why don't you save your "carefully selected and sorted tracks" as a play list? Then you can reload at will after shuffle or even after playing some other set of tracks??

[Peke]

Hi,

So out of curiosity why don't you save your "carefully selected and sorted tracks" as a play list? Then you can reload at will after shuffle or even after playing some other set of tracks??

Because it is Now Playing and doing things you said I ended with 15k of Playlists messed up completely and usually it is divided in 15Min sets (3-4 tracks) then change in mood/type/... Lastly I test my tracks and manage missing metadata from Now playing while listening, so I need to be able to have added order to track what I have done and what not.

[Rob_S]

I must be missing something - how can shuffling the now playing affect other playlists? Seems to me, at worst, you could accidentally overwrite one when you save.

If you have loaded a bunch of tracks into now playing, and you want to hear them shuffled, could you not just hit the shuffle first, and then start working your way down the shuffled list doing your "test my tracks and manage missing metadata" As long as you don't reshuffle them again, it would stay in fixed order.

Again, I really think the best way to save and reliably keep an ordered sequence of tracks would be to a new playlist - reload at will...

[Peke]

Hi,
Example I add 10-20 Albums (approx 300 tracks) that do not have AA, Album Artist, Multi Disks, Track Numbers, ... and want to tag them while I listen to them in shuffled order.
In 5.0.4 I simply turn shuffle on and my Now Playing still have ordered by added albums and I can easily use Increase Track # of Select easily all 20 Tracks from album to search AA/Auto tag. Now in 5.1 I need to go thru whole 300 tracks and hold CTRL to select each track from album and that order would not be file date/date added, but shuffled order, so I can't use addons, or determine which disk they belong in order to tag them correctly.

Note: I have 90% of my library in compilation albums that contain 20 Various Artists (in multi CD box sets sometimes 40-80 tracks across 4 disks) which I can't tell which disk belongs to.

eg. in 5.0.4 I click on first from disk 1 -> Hold Shift + Click on Last one -> Right click -> edit tags -> Increase Track # -> SHIFT+ENTER -> Add disk # -> Correct Album and album artist -> OK and that correct both Disk+Track #, but
in 5.1 I need to Click on first -> Scroll -> hold CTRL for each track I think it belongs to that Disk -> Repeat last two steps for 20 Tracks and then I can't use Increase Track # because even all tracks selected are in shuffled order so not in order of CD.

What you suggest is that after I add tracks to Now Playing I save it to new playlist -> do the edit -> then delete playlist, all that need multiple tabs and switching with hope I do not forget which one is which and where I left it before I go to get glass of water.

Every app I have tested work as 5.0.4 and none as 5.1.

[Rob_S]

Please let me know if you get tired of this discussion. I promise to go away peacefully.

I think I understand what you are doing as explained above. However, I keep thinking there is better way to do what you want, and not rely on the fickle sort order in "now playing"

Once you create a temporary playlist of your newly added tracks you can load that into the main window, and perform your autotagging and editing there, with more columns visible, and the ability to sort on more fields, all while your now playing carries on in random order, while enabling you to see what track is actually playing, and go back or forth at will.

You can also play other things in between, and go back to this batch of edits later merely by reloading that playlist.

When tagging is done, you delete that playlist, or keep it if you want to hear this batch all together again later.

[Peke]

When tagging is done, you delete that playlist, or keep it if you want to hear this batch all together again later.

I agree but when you have 15k of playlists it became a problem when you decide to restart MM or take a break. also as I already have enough clicks I do not need 10 more for playlist creation.

Please let me know if you get tired of this discussion. I promise to go away peacefully.

No, need. I actually would like to find better way, with improving Shuffle along the way.

[Rob_S]

... clicks I do not need 10 more for playlist creation

To create a new playlist in order from now playing is only 3 clicks, it gets named "- New Playlist -" and thus appears at the top of your playlist node.

Click triple dot menu in now playing, select "Save Playlist" , and click on the "new playlist " button top right corner. Done.

Somehow, I am surprised you might not be aware of this.....

And also, wondering if you will actually find it useful for what you were doing.