3.0.0.1098 Separate albums can get muddled

by **chrisjj** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:53 pm

> I prefer the current behavior, if an album has the same album artist,
> then they are the same album.

I'd have no problem with an option (on by default) for that...

> I do not want albums showing up under separate nodes because of
> path ... differences

and you'd have no problem with an option for /that/?

> If you want to semi-separate the tracks

No, I want to fully separate the tracks! They are separate albums, I promise you.

> btw, music ip mixer has the behavior that you want

Thanks for the tip.

by **Teknojnky** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:32 pm

I prefer the current behavior, if an album has the same album artist, then they are the same album.

I do not want albums showing up under separate nodes because of path (or year) differences, this would give duplicate album nodes and make it more of a pain in the ass to manage (IMO).

If you want to semi-separate the tracks, then simply sort by path then by album/track number, tho they will all appear under the same album node, they will be sorted according to the separate paths.

btw, music ip mixer has the behavior that you want, although it does not use 'nodes', it uses the itunes/track browser style, tracks of an album in different folders will show up as 2 separate albums, and it drives me crazy.

by **chrisjj** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:23 pm

tucky wrote:Where I have similar albums names I include [Live] in the Album title for the Live albums and [EP] or [single] for other conflicts.

That's similar to the workaround I showed below i.e. El rey del compás [EAN 0828766933420] ... but less robust, note, because only barcode is unique... and even then I've found some not! ;)

by **chrisjj** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:21 pm

> Different folder is just no guarantee for separate albums

It sure it if that's the way you rip, as here.

> I wonder how common CrissJJ issue is as it seems weird that
> someone would release 2 albums under the same name that
> are really different albums.

Common enough for this to be an example! :

> Stan9980's problem is more common due to single/album and re-
> releases and releases in different markets possibly all using the
> same name.

.

> another method is actually using identifiers in the albums name

Thanks, but tag pollution is not really acceptable here.

by **tucky** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:17 am

Where I have similar albums names I include [Live] in the Album title for the Live albums and [EP] or [single] for other conflicts.

by **Lowlander** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:10 pm

Although I would support that MediaMonkey takes the year in account for considering what's an album (ie Album, Album Artist and Year) I only see problems with considering the file path (folders). Different folder is just no guarantee for separate albums and forcing users to use that logic is not something I would support.

I wonder how common CrissJJ issue is as it seems weird that someone would release 2 albums under the same name that are really different albums.
Stan9980's problem is more common due to single/album and re-releases and releases in different markets possibly all using the same name. The year field would aid in that situation, another method is actually using identifiers in the albums name (like Album [Single]) or the by some suggested album type field could be used for this as well.

by **chrisjj** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:52 pm

rusty wrote:chris,
My rationale for aggregating tracks is that it's very common for people to have one track from AlbumX in one folder, another track from that album in My Downloads

I had no idea that was common. ;)

I suggest that while MM (through no fault of its own) has no sure way of grouping tracks in albums, it needs to support both these common workarounds - Album+AlbumArtist and FolderPath. It seems the only way to do that is with an option.

by **stan9980** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:02 pm

I agree with chrisjj. The current behaviour isn't the obvious behaviour. My example:

1.

Title = Nuclear Holiday
Artist = 3 Colours Red
Album Artist = 3 Colours Red
Album = Nuclear Holiday
Disc# = CDS
Track = 01
Year = 1997
Filepath = M:\0-9\3 Colours Red\1997 - Nuclear Holiday\3 Colours Red - 1997 - Nuclear Holiday - 01 - Nuclear Holiday.flac

2.

Title = Repeat To Fade
Artist = 3 Colours Red
Album Artist = 3 Colours Red
Album = Nuclear Holiday
Disc# = [blank]
Track = 01
Year = 2005
Filepath = M:\0-9\3 Colours Red\2005 - Nuclear Holiday\3 Colours Red - 2005 - Nuclear Holiday - 01 - Repeat To Fade.flac

Example 1 is a 3 track single, example 2 as a later live album. The workaround I use is to add (Single), not ideal.

Also, in the UK it's also common to have a single release consisting of 2 separately available cds which obviously causes the same problem (all the tracks appearing under one album title). The way I get around this is to add (CD1) or (CD2) after the album title.

It makes more sense to me that things that are in separate folders with identical album details are actually separate items, rather than assuming that they are badly organised but correctly tagged.

Stan

by **rusty** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:28 am

chris,

My rationale for aggregating tracks is that it's very common for people to have one track from AlbumX in one folder, another track from that album in My Downloads, and another track from that same album in /Music from John etc.

That said, I wasn't aware that it's common to have an Album Title and Album Artist equivalent for 2 different albums--the only time i've seen this is for different releases of the same album.

Any other opinions out there?

-Rusty

note: copying to wishlist for post 3.0 evaluation.

by **chrisjj** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:59 pm

> Can you please put some example ... please note Title, Artist, Album
? Artist and Album name along with Disk and Track # for each track from
> both albums

OK! Thanks for listening!

Album 1:

Filepath = C:\My Music\Juan D'Arienzo\El rey del compás [EAN 0828766933420]\01 Juan D'Arienzo - El rey del compás.wma
Title = El rey del compás
Artist = Juan D'Arienzo
Album = El rey del compás
Album Artist = Juan D'Arienzo
Disc # = 1
Track = 01
Comment = EAN 0828766933420

Album 2:

Filepath = C:\My Music\Juan D'Arienzo\El rey del compás [EAN 8427328130431]\01 Juan D'Arienzo - Retintín.wma
Title = Retintín
Artist = Juan D'Arienzo
Album = El rey del compás
Album Artist = Juan D'Arienzo
Disc # = 1
Track = 01
Comment = EAN 8427328130431

Each was made by ripping with default MM Destination:

C:\My Music\<Album Artist>\<Album>\<Track#:2> <Artist> - <Title>

and then EAN added to folder named to avoid clash, and EAN added in comment for visibility in MM track list.

Problem: MM tree displays these two as one album
Workaround: Pervert the Album tag e.g. make it 'El rey del compás [EAN 0828766933420]'
Desired fix: MM separates albums found in separate folders.

by **chrisjj** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:22 am

> I went through and added the album artist to match the artist, add
> covert art, etc.

People might like to know that a great tool for this is Mp3tag - www.mp3tag.com - free, supported by donations.

by **jabremer66** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:32 am

I had a similar experience, but with some differences...

When I had a Dell DJ, I was a little lazy with tags, only populating artist, album and track/title. Because of the functionality of the DJ, I didn't need other tags. Then my DJ died, I bought an iPod Classic and the other tags mattered!

The problem was that I had many artists with just one song. Instead of using a real album name, I used a standard "Greatest Hits" for all of them. I used the artist tag, but not album artist. Thus, on my iPod, I ended up with one big album called "Greatest Hits" with all the artists lumped together and listed as "Various Artists." The past month or so has been an exercise in precision tagging. I went through and added the album artist to match the artist, add covert art, etc. I now I have a cleaned up database with proper tags. *whew*

by **Peke** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:30 am

Can you please put some example, I'm trying to figure out how you organize your albums.
In example please note Title, Artist, Album Artist and Album name along with Disk and Track # for each track from both albums.

by **chrisjj** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:27 am

MM puts (by default) the tracks of an album in the same folder. That's the only way it can tell they are from the same album. To then ignore this info when displaying albums means it will always mess-up on same album+artist albums. For the sake of allowing the user to spread an album around the filing system.

I cannot see how this is "preferred behaviour". But if it is, please Devs consider an option '[ ] Each album is in one folder' for those that do not prefer it. Thanks.

by **rusty** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:36 am

chrisjj,

In general, I think that the current behaviour is the preferred behavior. I.e. if tracks have the same Album Artist and Identical title, the fact that they're spread across different parts of the file system shouldn't matter, since in all likelihood, they're part of the same album.

-Rusty

3.0.0.1098 Separate albums can get muddled

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