Thanks all!!!

The change will be reverted and it will work as it did previously.

Jiri

I have just seen this thread.
It is quite a relief to find out this is a [b]known bug[/b].
I was thinking it was [i]my [/i]tagging error :roll:

When I use the Artist function I want to see all the tracks for that Artist.
With all the discussion that has taken place it seems that many do not understand the issue.
Or, as they do not use the function, do not see it as an problem.

I do, and it[i] is[/i] a problem, and this bug annoys me no end.
MM devs resolve this, [b]please[/b]. :)

[quote="cmx"]Teckno, as for the () parenthetical artist references in the Artist node....seems redundant. You would be at a specific artist's node on the tree already why would you need the added reference? In the Album or Album Artist node the parenthetical reference IS useful and of practical value. [/quote]

It is not redundant in the case of compilations where the album artist would be "various" or whatever that is different from the [b]artist[/b].

Using example in mantis:

Artist Tree
+ [b]Abba[/b] <---- the artist in question
++ [b]Now! Music 287346287 (Various)[/b] <----- abba has a song on now! music, but the now music album is NOT an abba ALBUM, it is a compilation of various artists.

The (Various) in parenthesis makes this visually explicit.

Without the parenthesis:
Artist Tree
+ [b]Abba[/b] <---- the artist in question
++ [b]Now! Music 287346287[/b] <----- abba has a song on now! music, but the now music is whose ALBUM ? it is still not an abba album, even tho abba has a track on it. It is ambiguous, no one knows whose album it is.

[quote]If the parenthetical album artist reference in the "Artist" node solved the dragging and dropping/tagging issues then sure why not, otherwise it wouldn't seem to serve any purpose for a person using the "Artist" node.[/quote]

I don't think it would solve any problem other than making it visually apparent what exactly the album artist is of the album when it is not the artist itself.

Thanks for the input Bex....yeah the definitions and names of the nodes are not exactly intuitive....the Artist & Album artist node kinda behaves the opposite of what you would expect on first glance...at least as far as the Nav Tree is concerned.

The poster intuitively expected the behavior that is what I have come to expect from the "Artist" node....ALL albums that an artist appears as "Artist" displayed under the artist name in the Nav Tree.

I agree with how I think Bex feels...in that the drag/drop capability should be secondary to the primary function of navigation. Logical interface functionality -then make drag drop function with that.

I think a lot of confusion is simply the semantics of the node names....and possibly a "design bug" as rusty mentions....

"Artist" node- display in the Nav Tree all albums containing any tracks an artist appears as "artist" on.

"Album Artist"- display in the Nav Tree only albums where the artist is designated "album artist".

Make these work as they have all along up until 1228. They are clear and unambiguous as to content result.

"Artist & ASlbum Artist" is of course not so clear as to implementation from a user perspective....

What about the possibility of just implementing an "All" subnode under "Album Artist" that would then display all tracks in the main window for an artist as the "Artist & Album Artist" now functions....wouldn't that really be simplest?...and simply do away with the confusing parent "Artist & Album Artist" node?...

Just some thoughts. Whatever you do PLEASE get the "Artist" node functionality back to the results described above.

Here's more on the subject:
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24442

Thanks for input Davo, you can easily go back and reload 1228 and it works fine showing all albums. I'm sure this will get resolved...I think the knife slipped and we got our finger cut off while trimming our nails...

Thanks nohitter. Yeah the questions were essentially for the people that wrote up the mantis entry and worked on the issue...they would be the ones that could definitively answer the questions. I would present it that if this was in fact the "intended behavior"....the the "intended behavior" is indeed a regression.

Thanks for circling back to the manits and reopening the issue T.

I have to admit I was not able to follow exaclty what rusty was doing in the tests. There has always been slightly odd behavior when dragging and dropping between nodes-whether in the "Artist" node or others...editing the database and tags is highly complex and problematic to code I'm sure. Making it work logically internally is important....but please do not limit basic UI/display functionality.

Teckno, as for the () parenthetical artist references in the Artist node....seems redundant. You would be at a specific artist's node on the tree already why would you need the added reference? In the Album or Album Artist node the parenthetical reference IS useful and of practical value.

If the parenthetical album artist reference in the "Artist" node solved the dragging and dropping/tagging issues then sure why not, otherwise it wouldn't seem to serve any purpose for a person using the "Artist" node.

CMX says - "From a user perspective it makes perfect sense that ALL albums that an artist appears on shows up in the Nav tree under the artist node."
I absolutely agree - I want to use the Tree/Node to quickly find the albums that an artist appears on. I don't want half of them in the Tree & then have to scroll through 100's of tracks in the main window to find the rest. This seems to be the case if I use the Artist node or the Artist & Album Artist node.

By way of contrast if i use the "Composer" node i can see all the albums the composer appears on in the Tree, including compilation albums where the Album Artist is "Various". The same logic should apply to Artist.

I added a comment/suggestion to mantis and reopened it for feedback (http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=5461), and pointed it to this thread's discussion.

Yay for circular linkages.

[quote="cmx"]I don't know nohitter, not sure how to respond to your post...as I said I did not clearly understand the MANTIS thread and there has been no clarification from the devs..[/quote]

Well I was just trying to answer your question i.e.:
[quote="cmx"]This is a very important issue here so I worked through Mantis and found http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=5461.

Is this connected to the regression?[/quote]

So in other words... yes, it is indeed connected to that Mantis bug entry. However, it seems to be the intended behavior (not a regression).

Thanks techno....its clear that we navigate and use MM very differently. It's fortunate that your style of using MM is not affected by this recent regression. I appreciate you pointing out that you can see how using the "artist" node in this way wopuld be useful to others and that a regreession would be UNfortunate.

So far it seems only one other person that the problem has affect has posted...hopefully there will be more and at the very least I am making the case apparent to the devs.


Damn, this is a TIME VAMPIRE.

btw, you've already stated in the initial post how they should work, and I only need the combined artist & album node.

If artist node is not working as described (in the initial post), then I do of course agree that its a regression.

[quote="cmx"]Not completely clear on what you mean...
[quote]in MM 2, the artist node displayed all TRACKS by the artist, and when expanded it showed all the album NODES by which were album artist.

Compilation albums do not expand in the artist to album subnodes.

Compilation albums expand on the album artist.

Compilation TRACKS show up on both the artist's node, and whatever the album artist's node is.
[/quote][/quote]

Not sure how I could explain it clearer


[quote]But how do you know that there IS a compilation album with a track from the artist on it using only the Artist & Album Artist node?[/quote]

The track list which you click the artist/album artist node.

[quote] The compilation album will not show up in the Nav Tree.[/quote]

It does not show up under the artist/album artist navigation, it DOES show up under the compilation artist & album artist tree... IE the "Various Artist" node.

[quote] It shows up in the main window, but here it could be buried in hundreds of tracks.[/quote]

yes, and? my track list is sorted by year/album, I can easily see by scrolling any compilations or albums which don't appear to have all the tracks.

[quote]That is what I "used"..."Artist" node only....it showed all albums associated with an artist in the Nav Tree under the artist name...[/quote]

I can understand and see how that might be useful to some, but that is not something personally that I need or want (which is why the separate artist, album artist nodes are hidden and unused.

Basically, I don't care enough about the possibly dozens of compilations an artist is on to have it clutter up the tree.

Not completely clear on what you mean...
[quote]in MM 2, the artist node displayed all TRACKS by the artist, and when expanded it showed all the album NODES by which were album artist.

Compilation albums do not expand in the artist to album subnodes.

Compilation albums expand on the album artist.

Compilation TRACKS show up on both the artist's node, and whatever the album artist's node is.
[/quote]

Yeah, I think MM2 "Artist" only showed "Album Artist" albums in different incarnations at different times...which was problematic...

But how do you know that there IS a compilation album with a track from the artist on it using only the Artist & Album Artist node? The compilation album will not show up in the Nav Tree. It shows up in the main window, but here it could be buried in hundreds of tracks.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "expand"...I just need all albums that an artist appears on as an "artist" to appear under the artist's name in the Nav tree Artist node. That seems the most basic functionality to me. I don't use any other nodes while browsing day to day.

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In 1228 and all previous MM3's when I click on an artist in the Artist node of the Nav Tree I see all albums upon which tracks from the artist appear.
When I then select an album under the artist, all tracks from the current artist that are on that album appear in the main window.

The simplest, most intuitive and basic functionality imo.

This is essential for me ( and please do not direct me to the "Track Browser"...lol) I have artists with 2 songs on two different compilation albums never a "Album Artist" and at the same time I have artists with thousands of tracks spread across dozens of solo and compilation albums with dozens of "artist" variations...Count Basie is a good example, there is Count basie and his Orchestra, Count Basie and his All Stars, Count Basie's Kansas City Seven....many are compilations and many tracks are set as various because there are multiple artists appearing on an album with Basie yet they are all still Count Basie....you get the idea....only a fraction of these as "Artist" would show up under Album Artist ....then can you imagine trying to wade through a main window with literally hundreds of tracks and dozens of albums...

To have ease of access to my very large and wide ranging and sometime inconsistently tagged library using the "Artist" node has been the simplest and most logical....everything is there, easily accessable.

NOW in the "Artist" node, only the albums upon which the artist is designated "Album Artist" appear under the artist in the Artist node of the Nav Tree....as in the Artist & Album Artist node....very limiting in function for a lot of my library.

My library is far from perfectly tagged...this is another reason using the Artist node as it useful, it has made navigating and finding things easier....please keep in mind that many more casual users will not have perfectly tagged and ordered libraries to deal with....


Sorry for the length and number of posts, but I am essentially speaking to the devs, and I want to make sure the issues and concerns of users like myself are presented as clearly and determinably as possible...this is a really critical daily ease of use issue that I feel is crippling MM.

Thanks for any help on getting this clarified and resolved to everyone's satisfaction.