not sure if win 98 se can use them i don't have 98 se. i have win 98 golden.. on a win 95 motherboard with isa slots. the png files are not liked on that system. and animated png's used for av images are split up and shown as one image for each frame all at once on the screen. so there are major bugs with win98 golden and mm3.

but lets face it there was a major bug released in win 98 that microsoft knew about upon release and they could not fix it. so the whole 98 os was a big bug. and is only working if you can get around the bugs in it. 8)

> mm 3 can't use png files on win98

Thanks for that info. If that was true of Win98SE, I suggest it be verified as filed as a bug.

[quote="rusty"]To clarify:
The readme currently (in MM 3.1.1) indicates that MM is tested (read: supported) on Vista, XP, Win2000 (SP3/SP4), Win 98 SE, Win ME , and should be updated[/quote] You might want to get a correction on http://download.cnet.com/MediaMonkey-Standard/3000-2141_4-10109807.html which wasy "Win 98".

since i said i told you rusty about the error. back then i take it your statment of not knowing what the issue was.
is directed at my remark. not to worry i did not expect you to remember it from doing the coding in mm 2.5 all the way through the codes for mm 3.1.2 that would be way too much to ask and besides remembering that code error of an out dated program would be too much of a chance to mess up the code for the new program versions.

shoot man i barely remember the error in that old program but i don't program either so it would be easier for me to remember the error symptoms then you could remember the code error.

but for anyone else that wants to know it involved the lockups and the multiple alerts cascading down the screen.
and instant crashes that closed monkey. and mm 3 can't use png files on win98 and the buttons had a mysterious location for clicking that was never in the same location all the time and most the time was not on the image of the buttons. :-?
but i fixed some of it by removing the computer from off line and getting rid of 98% of the online programs and turning off all the auto scans, but i still get the crashing and lockups now and then but most the other errors are gone.

To clarify:

The readme currently (in MM 3.1.1) indicates that MM is tested (read: supported) on Vista, XP, Win2000 (SP3/SP4), Win 98 SE, Win ME , and should be updated--there should have been an asterisk next to Win98 and WinME to indicate the patch requirements relating to CD handling (as to the specific issues being faced by someone not being able to run MM on W98, I'm not sure what the issue was).

Moving forward (i.e. for MM 3.1.2), we'll update the officially supported OSes to Win7, Vista, XP, and indicate that although MM is known to work on 98/ME/2k/WINE, it isn't officially supported.

Thanks for the feedback.

-Rusty

[quote="rovingcowboy"]1. windows 95, 98 Golden, 98 Se, win 2K, winMe, and all other 9x systems should use Mediamonkey 2.5.5.998
2 windows Xp home and windows Xp Pro, Vista, Win 7, should use mediamonkey 3.0 or newer.

when you read it that way you can see how they are saying mediamonkey will load and run on those os's.[/quote]
I've seen nothing that can be read that way. MM's download page offers V3.X for Win9X, not even mentioning V2.X.

I doubt very much that "Only V2.5.X for Win 9X" is Ventis policy.

[quote="rovingcowboy"] most 98 stuff is going to be gone in awhile there's no need to support a unsupported os[/quote]
If true, then Ventis needs only remove Win 9X from the list of supported OSs. Problem solved. And this might even increase sales, by eliminating user dissatisfaction with a product failing to work properly on an OS that meets its stated requirements.

> Define, work properly?

Does what the publisher claims it to do. E.g. Ventis' main MM advert says it records CDs, so it should record CDs.

The alternative is Ventis saying "Tested on Win 98" and then when the Win 98 user finds he can't record CDs on Win 98, Ventis says e.g. "Ah yes, it was tested, but the result of the test was failure."

> If MM doesn't include the libraries it needs, it should include them in the system requirements.
> It does not exclusively need it to be started/installed/used and specific feature requirements are noted/sorted in knowledgebase.

Sorry, knowledgebase get-outs do not cut it. E.g. MM still does not work properly on Win XP SP2 (e.g. http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39960&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Win+XP+SP2+fail+WMA) - Ventis should either correct its claim that Win XP meets MM sytem requirements, or correct the program.

>> Then even less reason for Ventis to deceive customers by listing Win 98.
> Decieve? You have not been able to install/start Free MediaMonkey on Win 98?

"System Requirements" are what an app needs to do what it is claimed to do. MM claims to do a lot more than install and start.

> I understand what you are saying and if I got it right Ventis should write something like it is written
> for purchasing games under Minimal requirements and Recommended requirements and or?

Game Minimum/Recommended is about performance, so I don't think it would suit MM. MM's issues are about functionality, so I think Ventis should have a System Requirements list for the full MM functionailty, and perhaps a second list for easch level of reduced functionality.

chrisjj let me say it this way.

what the os's you said in your last message mean are simplely this.

1. windows 95, 98 Golden, 98 Se, win 2K, winMe, and all other 9x systems should use Mediamonkey 2.5.5.998
2 windows Xp home and windows Xp Pro, Vista, Win 7, should use mediamonkey 3.0 or newer.

when you read it that way you can see how they are saying mediamonkey will load and run on those os's.

oh by the way my 98 gold system uses a windows 95 motherboard with isa slots so it is an old motherboard. :o
:)


edited this in for you.
not sure if rusty did it for all beta testers back on mm 2.5 but before they starte mm 3. i was asked about keeping win98 as a working with mm 3. my answer was simply this. no toss it xp is out most 98 stuff is going to be gone in awhile there's no need to support a unsupported os, even microsoft dropped it, i would just keep mm 2.5 free for the old win98 users and work on mm 3 for the new os's.

that is what i told rusty now that was just one opinon from many beta testers back then but it looks like the others agreed with me. cause that is what they did. as for the caps and resits... causing trouble on the old motherboards i can confirm that is not myth. my windows 98 was acting up with an error. i contacted windows support after i got told here a dozen or so times it was not mediamonkey. in my 18 page post on the error. and my reply from microsoft was this. " Its the windows 98 hardware " i wrote them 5 or so times trying to get a better answer and could not i always got the same one. so i told them to come here get the program and find the trouble. they sent back. " we did that and it is the windows 98 hardware causing the issue.) so its either some chip or block or cap or rist.. on the motherboards for win98 that had caused it.

unless of course the MS. tech support lied about it?

[quote]> Tested to be started/installed on, not bug free

Uh?? [/quote] Which means that no application is perfect if Windows 98 was perfect we would not have Windows XP or any other Hardware would not be designed. if EPROM was Perfect why we even bothered to make EEPROMs

[quote]So http://download.cnet.com/MediaMonkey-Standard/3000-2141_4-10109807.html
[quote]Operating system: Windows Vista, Windows 95, Windows Me, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows NT, Windows 98 [/quote] refers to OSes on which MM will install and launch, not those on which it will work properly??

What use is it to a user to have a product that installs, starts, and then doesn't work properly?[/quote]

Define, work properly? Personally I found no problems to use MM on Windows 98 for what I need to work on Windows 98 (Have old Win98 Laptop that used MM 2.5.5.998 and installed 3.1.2.1267 and it can play music without problems. Note that I turned off Skinning due lack of updated drivers from manufacturer and slow hardware performance but it was working out of box)

[quote]> For CD-Ripping and Burning ASPI drivers are needed to get functionality.

If MM doesn't include the libraries it needs, it should include them in the system requirements.[/quote]

It does not exclusively need it to be started/installed/used and specific feature requirements are noted/sorted in knowledgebase.

[quote]> Also Note that Motherboards designed for Win98 are at least 9-10 years old which
> means that Capacitors on it can create many many issues on advanced software

Take it from this electronics engineer: that is nonsense and superstition.[/quote]

That was I talked to people myself (I was not paying lots attention on classes too much my teenage "brain" was somewhere else) until I've seen that case more than few times. Especially as it is [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=a988UyrJttYC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89#v=onepage&q=&f=false]known[/url] that [url=http://books.google.com/books?id=a988UyrJttYC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81#v=onepage&q=&f=false]capacitors[/url] loose at least 20% of their characteristics over first few years of use. You are right that it is highly unlikely to be the case, but as engineer you should know that even Static electricity from accumulated dust can throw an system BSOD due the some spike over Memory Module and read address. Anyway sorry for mentioning that I wasn't thought that you would be understand it like that.

[quote]> MM can't play WMA 11 unless WMA 11 isn't supported in WMP for Win 98 and you are not
> able to obtain WM 11 Core codecs for Win 98. The list goes on ...

But the list doesn't go on the software specification, where it should do.[/quote]

I think it does apply with these specs already known to user http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/versions.aspx along with knowledge base, FAQ, ... Effort in continuing to give support for abandoned OS-es even limiting in some cases. For me any app that tries to maintain any sort of compatibility to old system is a plus.

[quote]Ventis could save a lot of wasted user time by being honest about the system requirements. List the OSs on which MM works properly. Assuming there are any.[/quote]

This is what MS said also to all companies in the world when introduced Digital signing (WHQL) for every piece of apps and drivers (especially on that).
For example I have perfectly working WEB Cam that do not "Properly" (Can't be installed) under Windows 7 due the fact that Digital Driver signature is not paid to MS and Windows refuses to load driver unless I explicitly agree to use device (one "not properly" working) under Test and Development system settings where MS can't ensure anything as user will use non signed driver. I don't think that even manufacturers of OS-es can assure you that it will work properly with or without MediaMonkey.

[quote]> Do not get me wrong but PC that support/have Windows XP pre-installed can be bought for $30-$60

Then even less reason for Ventis to deceive customers by listing Win 98.[/quote]

Decieve? You have not been able to install/start Free MediaMonkey on Win 98?

Every user have rights to test and chose application that works properly on his OS and hardware preferences and needs. That is why free versions exists.

I understand what you are saying and if I got it right Ventis should write something like it is written for purchasing games under Minimal requirements and Recommended requirements and or?

> Tested to be started/installed on, not bug free

Uh??

So http://download.cnet.com/MediaMonkey-Standard/3000-2141_4-10109807.html
[quote]Operating system: Windows Vista, Windows 95, Windows Me, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows NT, Windows 98 [/quote] refers to OSes on which MM will install and launch, not those on which it will work properly??

What use is it to a user to have a product that installs, starts, and then doesn't work properly?

> For CD-Ripping and Burning ASPI drivers are needed to get functionality.

If MM doesn't include the libraries it needs, it should include them in the system requirements.

> Also Note that Motherboards designed for Win98 are at least 9-10 years old which
> means that Capacitors on it can create many many issues on advanced software

Take it from this electronics engineer: that is nonsense and superstition.

> MM can't play WMA 11 unless WMA 11 isn't supported in WMP for Win 98 and you are not
> able to obtain WM 11 Core codecs for Win 98. The list goes on ...

But the list doesn't go on the software specification, where it should do.

Ventis could save a lot of wasted user time by being honest about the system requirements. List the OSs on which MM works properly. Assuming there are any.

> Do not get me wrong but PC that support/have Windows XP pre-installed can be bought for $30-$60

Then even less reason for Ventis to deceive customers by listing Win 98.

Tested to be started/installed on, not bug free especially as you can't download patches from MS now and I haven't seen Win 98 SE Gold Edition installation CD at all even MS claim they released it before closed all support. For CD-Ripping and Burning ASPI drivers are needed to get functionality.

Also Note that Motherboards designed for Win98 are at least 9-10 years old which means that Capacitors on it can create many many issues on advanced software that evolved beyond Win98 and take any advantage available possible. Win ME is same case as with Vista an Test system for preparing and bug fixing next generation of OS-es (Win ME : Vista = Win XP : Win 7).

EDIT: MM can't play WMA 11 unless WMA 11 isn't supported in WMP for Win 98 and you are not able to obtain WM 11 Core codecs for Win 98. The list goes on like newer iPods are even not recognized on Win 98 SE and USB 1.1 by manufacturer. I had a friend that bought iTouch FW 2.1 and read that MM support it so he assumed that MM will work with it on Win 98. I would say possibly if you authorize itouch to be used on that PC (which can be done only in iTunes that do not support Win 98).

Do not get me wrong but PC that support/have Windows XP pre-installed can be bought for $30-$60 and with few hardware upgrades (HDD, RAM, GPU) can be made decent PC under $100. I gave 2 of my Windows 98 SE PCs as a gift to a friend kids (5 and 7) to watch cartoons and play old cartoon kid games.

> Windows 98 SE have free Unofficial SP 2.01 that fixes most compatibility issues with MM

Uh?? What "compatibility issues"? MM says

[quote]It has been tested on Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and Vista. Simply double-click the downloaded file to install it[/quote]

That's a list of OSs with which MM is supposed to be compatible.

> oh yeah i did tell them about it and posted in the forum when i had the errors
> it was png files and the codes for them to be used any skin that had even one png file
> was messed up. and some of the codes for the buttons would not even work.

Noted - thanks.

@Chrisjj
Windows 98 SE have free Unofficial SP 2.01 that fixes most compatibility issues with MM and also newer Burn/ripping engine is not supported by Win ME/9x and you need to install 9x patch along with ForceASPI to get it work see http://www.mediamonkey.com/support/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=38

not too many bugs in it for me on win 98 to use it as a all day and all night and all week jukebox. it is the windows 98 os that has most the bugs on my computer. of course i just play music with the computer and use msagents all day with it and change the playlists with the script peke made for it to use the windows task scheduler.
so there's not much running and it does not go online and there is no preset scanning running every thing is taking care of by task scheduler jobs, so that might be the reason mine is not showing the errors you might be getting on your friends windows 98, :-? mine don't do anything else but music :D


oh yeah i did tell them about it and posted in the forum when i had the errors it was png files and the codes for them to be used any skin that had even one png file was messed up. and some of the codes for the buttons would not even work. some files were being asked for by my win98 os that monkey was trying to use but when i put them in they did not help and made things worse cause they had code in for the newer os's which 98 did not like.

and by the way might be from difference's from UK to USA. but here :wink:
[b]supposed to work,[/b].
supposed to work, means might work might not work. but it was tested and worked on our test computer.

:)