Syncing MMW Gold and MMA Pro (released versions)

[Jim Kelly]

I won't be syncing at all for the next two weeks but thought I'd summarise recent experience as per subject line for the benefit of developers. I think close attention to many of these little comments will help users immensely.


The messages at the end of WiFi "Synchronization" need to be more detailed to allow us to build confidence,
EG:
* Updated 6 tracks (which six?? and why??)
* Downloaded one track (which track?? Why?? Downloaded to me sounds like server to device, but the server has not been touched. Why download a track?)

I just rated one song at MMA, why does it need to send the whole file back to the server? By doing that it wiped out the updated tags I had added at the server (Quality, Disk #, and Custom fields). IMO, I should have had a warning that this would occur (ie both files had changed, which one to keep?).
.
.
Under WiFi connection ONLY:
* the MMW Tools Menu > Sync Device > Auto-Synchronize entries vanish
* the MMW context menus of Send-to > {Samsung External Storage} (Synchronize) entries vanish
* the MMW tree nodes for {Samsung External Storage} (Synchronize) entries vanish
.
.
When USB Synching
* the initial confirmation box needs greater explanatory information. Especially since the tick-boxes are often not populated appropriately (why?). Confirm should mean I read it and press continue!

* The status line often says "Copying" when in is probably "Checking" (to see if it needs to copy)

* the handy MMW status line needs to say which direction any file copy is going. Same with deletion, etc.
Also, it would be certainly best if the file extensions were not truncated in the status info (or is displaying TITLE on some occasions? If so I think a file copy status should use the file name and path). On closer inspection: So the extension and copy direction IS there SOME-times! It changes during the course of the routine from a good (useful) display to a poor, ambiguous display.

When USB Synching there is no summary displayed afterwards. This is most disconcerting, especially given how ambiguous the status info has been.
.
.
BUGS
If these things are attended to I, and others, could be more helpful in pinpointing errors. At the moment I have just done a USB sync of over 500 files, went to the MMA device, pressed [Sync] and it is slowly syncing 257 files (presumably by WiFi - both connections were active for both syncs). Something is clearly wrong! I have seen this behaviour when syncing twice in the other order too (WiFi then USB).
. .
I keep looking forward to this all working the way we expect it to. Lowlander and others are saying that it works well for them, I think some attention to these details will allow us new syncers to get up to speed quickly instead of falling into a series of black holes and dead end sequences.

Thanks,

[Jim Kelly]

Anyone able to suggest a way please, to freshen up the tracks on MMA using AutoPlaylists?

Each method I try causes many of the tracks to be needlessly replaced on the MMA phone at each Sync.
(I am setting a maximum GB limit to stop filling the mSD card).

I'd like it to simply delete the ones that have been played, then top up with random fresh ones.

Thanks,

[Lowlander]

Then use Last Played as criteria in the AutoPlaylists. It won't get exactly what you want as it's a blanket (across all devices) Last Played, but it will get you close to what you seek. I use it myself and have a more complex setup where different types of music are allowed different Last Played dates depending on how often I'd like to hear them.

[Jim Kelly]

Yes, I am certainly using the Last Played rule . . .

There is a chance I was triggering a reshuffle by trying to overfill the mSD card. If devs are reading this then they should test to see what happens when that (so easily) happens.

In my case I had ticked the 2nd level box in a cascade of nested APLs, thinking that was the best way to select all APLs below it (it works). However the intention doesn't! All the tracks that the mid level filtering caused are attempted to sync too, which of course is way too many. Simple to fix when you realise what happens, but a tip of some sort should alert us sleepy users (please!).

I think the problem has gone away now, and I kind of like the way it works, replacing them if played on either MMA or MMW. It should be a tick box option thing though as you may be setting it up (say) for a spouse to use in their car. Or spouse could hear it at home whilst you are in the car, etc.

Thanks,

[Lowlander]

I presume that per device tracking would add extra database overhead that my proof a significant performance hit.

I'm assuming here that the database currently tracks total play in a field and last played in a field, not a table that has a song and it's played date (to which one would easily add a deviceid field).

An additional problem is that for many deviceid isn't the same as user as devices are shared. Heck for me as a user there is even a different with whom the music is shared for listening by me.

[Jim Kelly]

Yes, I can see that it could get complex Lowlander. As posted elsewhere, I really feel that we deserve much more detail in the summary at the end of each sync. Indeed, even during sync, there are messages that fly by that I either am not there to see, or if I am, they come and go too quickly to read.

If a series of switches were available it would probably be adequate by allowing each user to adjust APL by APL, and have the results confirmed clearly at each summary page. A box to say 'no need to display detailed results for this APL' could help the tedium once working happily.

Or, perhaps they (played or not flagging) are settings that could best be added back at the APL design setting dialogs in MMW(Gold)?

The end result is looking great, I feel that it is the holes that we fall into that are impeding the product at this stage. Hopefully these conversations will be helping.

Regards,

[rusty]

Jim,

I just wanted to let you know that we're not ignoring this thread. We've made a large number of sync improvements (largely under the hood) in the most recent versions of MMA/MMW (1.1.3.527 / 4.1.10.1778), and will look into some of the suggested interface/workflow improvements for the future.

-Rusty

[Jim Kelly]

Thanks Rusty,

I will download immediately and test over the next few weeks.

[Jim Kelly]

Just installed both new versions and attempted a sync onto a new phone (see my sig), initial comment (hopefully helpful):

I have many nested auto-playlists on the server.
With these it has proven to be important not to select any names other than the deepest ones (or way too many tracks get synced).
But there is no provision to do this easily.
Say there are seven to tick in their deepest vessel, I'd expect to have a button to toggle all on/all off. And then as I retreat to have a blob set by default at the level above.
At the moment, if I tick them all, then retreat, I see a tick has been added to the parent. If I adjust there is no 'blob' option.

Thanks,

[Jim Kelly]

OK . . .
I selected about 20 playlists and pressed "Sync Now" . . . after a (too long) delay it announced it was beginning to sync 10,300 tracks! A quick calculation and I could expect to need four times the available card space. Went to cancel, but it had crashed . . .

Suspected that the USB charge cable may be causing ambiguity (am I syncing by WiFi or USB?) so removed it.
Entered the dialog again and NO playlists were ticked???

Started again by selecting just one (un-nested) track at the top level. Synched fine.

Selected a nested set accidently by ticking it at the top level. Damn! - that is way to easy and seems like the right thing to do. The interface needs to guide us much more carefully at this point. We need to enter the deeper levels, not tick the box . . .

OK, so I untick it and enter properly, digging well into it and selecting a single deep auto-playlist . . . then retreat and all blobs are in place. It syncs well.
So my points in the post above are still valid because:
A: We need a button to toggle all on/off
B: Just because all are ticked does not mean that the set above should be ticked too. Say if the deepest set is simply to choose genre, and I have only an interest in seven. Having the tick on the level above syncs all tracks regardless of genre!
C: New users (and forgetful old users) will be accidently ticking high levels and being frustrated by the huge file quantities that are synced. I think that 'blobs' should be the default on nested playlists, or at least to enter a lower level without inducing a tick to be added.

Hope this makes sense?

Thanks,

[Jim Kelly]

. . cont . . .
It finished the 300 tracks . . . . then began "downloading 10038 tracks"!! . . .
Have I got two separate syncs happening here? Looks like I have not killed the initial one where I accidently selected all tracks?
Cannot continue at the moment but look forward to any suggestions or comments . . .
It shouldn't be this hard!
How can I clean this up and start again?
Have sent LOGS: F0FBHL6CUR
Thanks,

[Jim Kelly]

. . . cont
This dialog really does need an urgent cleanup!
I tried to remove the existing (nested)playlists selection by touching it's 'blob'. It immediately changed to a tick and I could NOT change the tick back to a blob, nor to deselect it (as I had wanted to). As a result EVERY sub folder was ticked and had to be de-selected manually!!

So near but so far . . .

I hope it is a simple series of fixes for you to tidy things up. It must drive less persistent users to despair.

Thanks,

[Jim Kelly]

It is not just a tidy up that is badly needed . . . there is a bug too:
I have now got just one sub playlist ticked (out of many), and when I look at the top level for that group there is a tick shown when it should be a 'blob'.
This may be the reason that it believes there are over 10000 tracks to sync.

ALSO,
There is an opportunity to remind users that MM Windows must be running on the server! At the moment the failure message makes one think it is a connection (WiFi) problem . . .