Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

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JoePublic
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Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by JoePublic » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:06 pm

This is a request for enhancements.

Sometimes I use MM in a DJ situation. Sometimes, I use the "Stop after Current" button so I can talk after one song ends and before the next song begins. Unless I am missing something already in MM Gold, this feature could use some improvement.

#1 - Add a visual indication in the NP window that "Stop after Current" has been applied to the currently-playing song. Sometimes I get busy & forget if I have applied SaC or not. Then, to make sure, I feel like I'd better apply the control again. This is just a small annoyance, but it would be nice if it could be addressed.

#2 - More importantly, sometimes I change my mind and decide I don't want to Stop the Current song after it plays, however, I already applied the control. To my knowledge, there isn't any way to remove the Stop after Current designation. Is there? In conjunction with request #1 above, could SaC be changed into a toggle function?

#3 - After the current song has stopped, it requires two mouse clicks to resume the song queue: click the Next button (which advances the next song to Current status), then move the mouse over to the left and click the Play button. That's unnecessarily cumbersome. Could MM be changed so that the next song automatically becomes Current after the previous song has stopped as a result of SaC, so that only one button (Play) has to be clicked to resume the queue? Is there a reason this behavior wasn't programmed into the SaC function originally?

#4 - Finally, it would be nice to have a new control so that one could designate any song in the NP window to Stop after Playing, and not just the currently-playing song. Obviously, there would have to be some visual indication that a song will Stop after Playing, and there would need to be a way to toggle the control on or off of the song. If I had to choose, I'd give this request up in favor of the other three. I figured as long as I was asking for enhancements, I'd put this one out there for comment.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Mizery_Made » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:50 pm

#1 - Some of the MM4 skins now have a Stop After Current button on the player, would this suffice?

#2 - I believe the feature is already toggle-able in MM4. Haven't played with it much, but I know the option in the Play menu indicates an On and Off state if you select it more than once (the icon is highlighted when on, and if you select it again, it goes back to normal suggesting it's off though I haven't actually tested. May just be a bug that it appears toggle-able).

#3 - I believe this has either already changed in MM4, or is tracked for future change in Mantis. I believe with normal play, it will move to the next track, but with shuffle on, it remains on the song that just finished.

#4 - I'm not sure how useful this would be, honestly.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by JoePublic » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:34 am

Mizery_Made wrote:#1 - Some of the MM4 skins now have a Stop After Current button on the player, would this suffice?
I probably don't want to use a custom skin just to get this feature, but that's good to know about that option. Thanks for your other comments as well. Now I'm really looking forward to MM4.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Mizery_Made » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:39 am

JoePublic wrote:
Mizery_Made wrote:#1 - Some of the MM4 skins now have a Stop After Current button on the player, would this suffice?
I probably don't want to use a custom skin just to get this feature, but that's good to know about that option. Thanks for your other comments as well. Now I'm really looking forward to MM4.
Well they aren't exactly "custom skins." Two of the four default skins in MM4 (Pulse and Vitreous) have this button present on the player. However, I must confess that somehow I mixed up what you were saying regarding #1 or... something. I think when I was answering it, I had it in my head that the first point was asking for a button to set it in the NP window or something. However, if my bug report about the button goes through, then it would actually apply to your first point. Currently, it doesn't indicate the state of the "setting," which I feel is incorrect (evident by my report of said "bug")

EDIT: Regarding #3, here's the bug entry: 6543: Stop After Current behavior. It hasn't been added yet, but it has been assigned a target version of 4.0, so it should make it in at some point along the development cycle (unless it's deferred to a later release).

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by nohitter151 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:36 am

Mizery_Made wrote:
EDIT: Regarding #3, here's the bug entry: 6543: Stop After Current behavior. It hasn't been added yet, but it has been assigned a target version of 4.0, so it should make it in at some point along the development cycle (unless it's deferred to a later release).
I know that the bug in the tracker isn't marked as resolved, but doesn't MM4 already have this implemented? Based on my limited use I'm pretty sure I noticed that specific feature already being implemented.
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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Mizery_Made » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:01 pm

Hm, seems that you're right. However, maybe it's not been closed yet because it's not been fully implemented according to the proposal by Peke. It does move on to the next track after the current one finishes... however it does that regardless if Shuffle is on or off (the proposal by Peke has the behavior remain as it was when Shuffle is on).

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by nohitter151 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:24 pm

Mizery_Made wrote:Hm, seems that you're right. However, maybe it's not been closed yet because it's not been fully implemented according to the proposal by Peke. It does move on to the next track after the current one finishes... however it does that regardless if Shuffle is on or off (the proposal by Peke has the behavior remain as it was when Shuffle is on).
Good point, I think you're right.
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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Mizery_Made » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:43 pm

It may be a good idea though, to post a reply to the bug entry drawing attention to the fact. At least get some confirmation from one of the developers (Ludek specifically, since it's assigned to him) as to whether it's only been partially implemented or if it's how they intend it but just forgot to close the bug.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Peke » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:48 pm

I added reference to this post. Have you tried My plugin to see behavior I'm talking about?
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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by JoePublic » Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:32 pm

Mizery_Made wrote:Hm, seems that you're right. However, maybe it's not been closed yet because it's not been fully implemented according to the proposal by Peke. It does move on to the next track after the current one finishes... however it does that regardless if Shuffle is on or off (the proposal by Peke has the behavior remain as it was when Shuffle is on).
I've been thinking about this some more & now believe Peke is on to something when he proposes that the Stop After Current functionality remain as it is now when Shuffle is on. In fact, I would now go farther because I think his point is valid even when Shuffle is not on. For example: Shuffle is off. You have a bunch of songs in Now Playing. You use Stop After Current and the song stops. Something non-MM happens (the DJ talks, a wedding cake is cut, whatever). The user decides he wants to select a new song to play next instead of the song already set as next in NP. If SaC is changed to advance to the next song before stopping, it will be a lot more difficult to insert a new song to play next and also maintain the rest of the original NP queue in its original sequence. I think this is just the point Peke was making.

So, some users might prefer the current functionality to remain as is, and I think they have a legitimate reason for their preference. For these users, changing SaC would "break" the function, and that would be a bad thing.

So now, here is my new proposal in descending order of preference. Choose one of:

#1 - Make SaC behavior globally optionable. The user can select if he wants SaC to always advance to the next song before stopping or not.

#2 - Keep SaC as is regarding its behavior of not advancing to the next song before stopping. Create a NEW Stop At Next toggle function that will do the new behavior. If either SaC or SaN function is toggled on, it would "dim out" the other function, so the user couldn't apply both functions to the same song. Or make SaC a three-way "toggle": Click once=Current behavior, Click twice=New behavior, Click thrice=Back to the Off condition.

#3 - Do nothing. The way SaC works now isn't so bad, and it could be made worse. Also, some people might rely on the current behavior and would be unhappy it if went away.

I'm thinking that the current idea to have SaC behave one way when Shuffle is on and another way when Shuffle is off is somewhat confusing. It's certainly more complicated, and one could argue that it is illogical. "Why should the Shuffle function have anything to do with the behavior of Stop after Current?" the casual MM user might ask. "Shuffle and Stop after Current are unrelated controls."

So, even though I initially wanted SaC to change, this discussion has been very helpful & has changed my point of view in this matter.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Peke » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:37 pm

Hmm, good review Joe.

One correction still regarding shuffle.

Load 4000 Tracks in Now playing and Enable shuffle. If SaC goes to next than it could go from #311 to #3011 and stop :( If I'm on Live performance and would want to continue playback from #312 I added as Play Next I would be losing valuable seconds to scroll thrum Now playing to get back to #312. But in case of No Shuffle issue would be opposite as #312 would be set and I would only need to press play on Keyboard to continue show.
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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Mizery_Made » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:37 pm

I don't think "Do Nothing" is an option, as it has been often asked why it doesn't move to the next track, and requested that it does. Also, if someone has Shuffle on and is looking to play the song directly under the one that is play, turning off Shuffle seems like a more logical reaction than using Stop after Current. Even then, there is always Zved's Queue List script which would allow you to insert a track while the current song is even playing. If someone uses Stop after Current, and then hits play a minute or two later, I don't think they're going to expect to hear the track that just played, shuffle or not.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Peke » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:09 pm

Remember that those two mins are used to add/prepare next track I would rather leave it on played that jump 3000 tracks in list. Also I would want to leave Shuffle on. It is the most when DJ-s work or when you work on radio stations where you put commercials/jingles in between two tracks. That is why I asked you to test my plugin.
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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by JoePublic » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:58 am

Mizery_Made wrote:Also, if someone has Shuffle on and is looking to play the song directly under the one that is play, turning off Shuffle seems like a more logical reaction than using Stop after Current. <snip> If someone uses Stop after Current, and then hits play a minute or two later, I don't think they're going to expect to hear the track that just played, shuffle or not.
Excellent point, mizery_made. Also, thanks to peke for explaining the Shuffle situation better.

This discussion shows why good software design isn't as easy as it looks from the outside. While wearing my analyst hat, here are a few things I try to keep in mind.
1- Don't break something that works.
2- Don't change the status quo unless there is a really good reason to do so.
3- Don't be quirky. Do be intuitive.
4- KISS - Keep it simple, stupid.

Right now, we seem to have a situation with SaC where it doesn't work intuitively for most people, but the status quo functionality likely has some adherents, at least in some situations. So, there seems to be conflicting requirements, and that's a design problem. The proposed solution "behave one way with Shuffle off, another way with Shuffle on" is at least a little quirky and I think violates KISS. And I don't mean to be presumptuous, but I'm not convinced that it [the proposed solution] best satisfies all users' reasonable needs. I'm thinking more and more that the better solution is either make SaC behavior optionable OR leave SaC alone and create a new Stop at Next function as I described in an earlier post.

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Re: Improve "Stop After Current" functionality

Post by Peke » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:18 am

Yeah, that is the logical assumption Joe.

Long live and prosper. 8) :lol: :D :roll: :wink:
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