Artist Node Regression MAKE OR BREAK ISSUE

[cmx]

There seems to be a serious regression in RC releases after MM 1228. I just loaded 1244 and regression/problem is still consistent.

Beginning with 1232 the "Artist" node no longer displays ALL tracks attributed to an artist "correctly"....it now only displays the albums of an artist if the artist is designated "Album Artist"...so if an artist appears on a compilation album the tracks and compilation album will not appear associated with the artist in the artist node.


Hopefully this was a small oversight. This issue was discussed and debated ad nauseum in the initial development of MM3....example :
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... bum+artist

...this is a distillation of how things worked out:

"Artist" node = ALL albums a specific "track artist" appears on are shown in NAV tree and ALL tracks from an artist are shown in main window.

"Album Artist" node = ONLY solo albums for a specific "track artist" appear in Nav tree and ONLY the tracks on those Albums shown in the NAV tree appear in main window.

"Artist & Album Artist" node= ONLY solo albums appear in NAV tree, YET ALL tracks from an artist appear in the main window.

We have our cake AND we can eat it! (Fingers are crossed that the functionality as shown for "Artist" continues to work here, as this is really all I use...)


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I believe the "Artist & Album Artist" node was developed to satisfy those that did not want multiple compilation albums and individual associated with an artist....the devs solved the issue with the new node functionailty...but now the "Artist" node behaves exactly as the "Artist & Album Artist" node does.

The Artist node needs to logically display ALL tracks and therefore ALL ALBUMS attributed/associated with an individual artist whether compilation or not- as MM functioned in releases prior to 1232...otherwise the user is never able to easily and l;ogically view all tracks associated with an artist.

Thanks for help on getting this basic and CRITICAL funtionality back.

[cmx]

Here is an image making the issue clear:



Artist node in 1244 is not showing the compilation albums that Musslewhite has tracks on.

[Davo]

Second this - In the "Artist" node I want to see all the albums an artist appears on in the tree.

[cmx]

This is a very important issue here so I worked through Mantis and found http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=5461.

Is this connected to the regression?

I have to admit I really couldn't follow what was going on....there seemed to be some obscure issues that I have never experiencd first hand. I could not determine if the current "regressive" functionality is the "resolution" or if there was an inadvertant issue created by adjusting the code as noted in the Mantis "resolution".

BUT I have to insist that it is absolutely critical that any album that contains a track by any given artist appear in the Artist node under any given artist. This absolutely basic. For example:

There must be an "unfiltered" access to the database...The user must be able to trust the fact that when they access an artist they are seeing ALL albums and tracks associated with that artist...if there is some sort of editing/drag drop issue please disable that funtionality but do not disable access to the database...

I also want to point out that this regression caused major confusion. Literally thousands of albums and tracks "disappeared"...meaning they were no longer accessable as before. I thought I was having server issues etc... We only use the artist node....We've reverted to 1228 until "re-resolved".

I also seem to be having serious tagging issues involved with the change...a lot of stuff got scrambled here when some minor changes were made to tracks associated with compilations. In one instance the all the track# fields were changed to the first name in the artist field when I changed the artist name on one track.....this has opened a can of worms here.


Thanks for any help in getting this back to normal.

[nohitter151]

Isn't that the intended behavior from that bug? Ie when Rusty said:

I understand that the Artist node shows Albums if the Artist has one track. My point is that it's inconsistent. In all other cases (even in the A+AA node), Albums are shown as children of _Album_Artists_ and not of Artists. Showing an Album as a child implies that the Artist is also the Album Artist even though it isn't!

and then later...

1a) removed in 1232

So in that case its expected to see albums only under an album artist's name? However, when you click on that artist's name, all the tracks by that artist appear.

[cmx]

I don't know nohitter, not sure how to respond to your post...as I said I did not clearly understand the MANTIS thread and there has been no clarification from the devs.

That DOES seem to be the way it is working now and it is a serious regression from the user's perspective in my opinion....that is the point of my posts. So yes, it does seem to be working "the way it is working"...and that is the problem...lol.

There seemed to be some concern as to the logic....and there seemed to be some internal problems updating the database.

From a user perspective it makes perfect sense that ALL albums that an artist appears on shows up in the Nav tree under the artist node. The assumption that there is confusion or implication that if an Album appears there that the artist is also the album artist is erroneous and I believe false logic. An artist is an artist whether it is an album artist ALSO or not. The "Album Artist" field is more something used for organizational internal database management than intuitive user interface imo. In fact it seems very confusing from a user perspective NOT to see an album in the tree, yet see it referred to in the main the window...


I have a large library with thousands of compilations. 12000 "artists" and 10000 "albums". Sometimes there are hundreds of songs per artist with many albums and compilations represented...do you begin to see the problems if the only way to isolate a track or album is by utilizing the main window?

HUGE regression. I really thought this basic functionality was put to bed long ago. Again, the previous builds worked fine and had functionality that seemed to please all users....I never had tagging issues and I don't really understand what was described as a problem with the database dragging and dropping problems described by Rusty....

jiri, rusty, PLEASE reconsider disabling this functionality....

[Lowlander]

Did MediaMonkey ever list albums under an Artist that the artist only was the Artist and not Album Artist? I've never seen that and I wouldn't want that either. I strongly disagree with CMX and would lead to a huge mess in the Artist node. I can see this as an option though so the user can select what the behavior should be.

[cmx]

nohitter, how do I get input from devs?...This is REALLY becoming a drag(pardon the pun) trying to browse my library and manage multiple portable devices. (I have been using 1228 and 1244 trying to see if I could adapt to the "new" artist node structure...staying with 1228 for now...here, it is a day and night difference in usage style and efficiency.)

Lowlander this is basic MM2 functionality that is being changed.

Just look at the above pictures...what do you want to see when you select the artist? Just 2 solo albums or all the albums the artist appears on? It's a no-brainer to me.

Lowlander if you do not want to see all albums associated with the artist then use "Album Artist" node or "Artist & Album Artist (I assume this is what you have been doing up till now if you have never seen this functionality before). I appreciate your note to provide the option....but this is the point of the thread...the functionality has ALWAYS been there....it has now been taken away.

As pointed out in above posts this was gone over and over again here while MM3 was in development and the devs created functionality to sastisfy the needs of just about everyone....

"Artist" node- All albums that an artist is designated "artist" on are shown under the artist node in Nav tree AND all tracks from all albums are in main window.

"Album Artist" node- Only albums where artist is designated "album artist" appear in Nav tree and only tracks from those albums appear in Main window

"Artist & Album Artist"- Only albums where artist is designated "album artist" appear in Nav Tree BUT all tracks that the artist is designated "artist" appears in the main window.

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I only use "Artist" node in order to clearly see my many compilation album references as displayed in the picture above. Yet is it NOW crippled to only display in the style of "Artist & Album Artist".

PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.

[Mizery_Made]

I honestly don't use the Artist node much, if at all. I have "Artist & Album Artist", "Album Artist" & "Artist" nodes all displayed, but I find myself using the "Artist & Album Artist" node all the time. However, taking a glance at this problem, I'm left wondering... what is the difference between the "Artist" and "Artist & Album Artist" nodes now? They seem to have pretty much the same functionality now. *Scratches Head*

[cmx]

Thanks for contributing mizery and letting us know how you use MM3. Originally in MM2, I recall there was only "Artist" node and "Album Artist" node. In MM3 the devs created the "Artist & Album Artist", I assume for the people that did not want to see compilation albums associated with an artist in the Nav tree, yet still have access to all tracks associated with an artist in the main window....I recall people had really firm ideas on how it "should" be, seemingly predicated on their library content and how they used MM. I was impressed how the devs created a solution to satisfy the needs and preferences for all users.

Hopefully they will return the original default "Artist" node functionality...with my library size, content and the way the different users here use MM it is essential....

[Teknojnky]

In MM 2, there was only Artist. which functioned how artist & album artist does now.

[cmx]

I thought it was the other way around techno....the original MM2 Artist node showed all associated albums...whatever, I remember in the beginning it was pretty much necessary to use "magic nodes" scripts to view stuff till MM2.5 and it was always a battle for me cause I had MP3s AND M4As.

How do you use the nodes techno? Don't you have a lot of compilations?

I can't get a clear understanding of what the original 5 point problem that was presented in Mantis that caused this regression. Can you decipher it here for us techno?

[Teknojnky]

in MM 2, the artist node displayed all TRACKS by the artist, and when expanded it showed all the album NODES by which were album artist.

Compilation albums do not expand in the artist to album subnodes.

Compilation albums expand on the album artist.

Compilation TRACKS show up on both the artist's node, and whatever the album artist's node is.

By understanding all of the above, I have no need whatsover for separate artist or album artist nodes. I don't use them and they stay hidden.

I use only artist & album artist node in mm 3.

If I want to see what tracks are on a compilation for a particular artist, all that I need to is select the artist on the artist & album artist node. If I want to select a compilation, I use the arrow shortcut to take me to that particular album (which is on the album node).

[cmx]

Not completely clear on what you mean...

in MM 2, the artist node displayed all TRACKS by the artist, and when expanded it showed all the album NODES by which were album artist.

Compilation albums do not expand in the artist to album subnodes.

Compilation albums expand on the album artist.

Compilation TRACKS show up on both the artist's node, and whatever the album artist's node is.

Yeah, I think MM2 "Artist" only showed "Album Artist" albums in different incarnations at different times...which was problematic...

But how do you know that there IS a compilation album with a track from the artist on it using only the Artist & Album Artist node? The compilation album will not show up in the Nav Tree. It shows up in the main window, but here it could be buried in hundreds of tracks.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "expand"...I just need all albums that an artist appears on as an "artist" to appear under the artist's name in the Nav tree Artist node. That seems the most basic functionality to me. I don't use any other nodes while browsing day to day.

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In 1228 and all previous MM3's when I click on an artist in the Artist node of the Nav Tree I see all albums upon which tracks from the artist appear.
When I then select an album under the artist, all tracks from the current artist that are on that album appear in the main window.

The simplest, most intuitive and basic functionality imo.

This is essential for me ( and please do not direct me to the "Track Browser"...lol) I have artists with 2 songs on two different compilation albums never a "Album Artist" and at the same time I have artists with thousands of tracks spread across dozens of solo and compilation albums with dozens of "artist" variations...Count Basie is a good example, there is Count basie and his Orchestra, Count Basie and his All Stars, Count Basie's Kansas City Seven....many are compilations and many tracks are set as various because there are multiple artists appearing on an album with Basie yet they are all still Count Basie....you get the idea....only a fraction of these as "Artist" would show up under Album Artist ....then can you imagine trying to wade through a main window with literally hundreds of tracks and dozens of albums...

To have ease of access to my very large and wide ranging and sometime inconsistently tagged library using the "Artist" node has been the simplest and most logical....everything is there, easily accessable.

NOW in the "Artist" node, only the albums upon which the artist is designated "Album Artist" appear under the artist in the Artist node of the Nav Tree....as in the Artist & Album Artist node....very limiting in function for a lot of my library.

My library is far from perfectly tagged...this is another reason using the Artist node as it useful, it has made navigating and finding things easier....please keep in mind that many more casual users will not have perfectly tagged and ordered libraries to deal with....


Sorry for the length and number of posts, but I am essentially speaking to the devs, and I want to make sure the issues and concerns of users like myself are presented as clearly and determinably as possible...this is a really critical daily ease of use issue that I feel is crippling MM.

Thanks for any help on getting this clarified and resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[Teknojnky]

Not completely clear on what you mean...

in MM 2, the artist node displayed all TRACKS by the artist, and when expanded it showed all the album NODES by which were album artist.

Compilation albums do not expand in the artist to album subnodes.

Compilation albums expand on the album artist.

Compilation TRACKS show up on both the artist's node, and whatever the album artist's node is.

Not sure how I could explain it clearer

But how do you know that there IS a compilation album with a track from the artist on it using only the Artist & Album Artist node?

The track list which you click the artist/album artist node.

The compilation album will not show up in the Nav Tree.

It does not show up under the artist/album artist navigation, it DOES show up under the compilation artist & album artist tree... IE the "Various Artist" node.

It shows up in the main window, but here it could be buried in hundreds of tracks.

yes, and? my track list is sorted by year/album, I can easily see by scrolling any compilations or albums which don't appear to have all the tracks.

That is what I "used"..."Artist" node only....it showed all albums associated with an artist in the Nav Tree under the artist name...

I can understand and see how that might be useful to some, but that is not something personally that I need or want (which is why the separate artist, album artist nodes are hidden and unused.

Basically, I don't care enough about the possibly dozens of compilations an artist is on to have it clutter up the tree.