output stability problem

[beg]

Hi,

I am using MM for DJ-ing (no mixing of songs therefore no special DJ software) and organizing a huge music collection 150k+ songs. It is the best programm for my needs as far as database playlist management is concerned. Also live playback for DJ-ing is working well, but I found one reproduceable problem while live playback:

I was experiencing playback-stops and MM-freezing for several seconds now and then. Recently I found out when and how this occurs:

If I happen to open a more complex auto-playlist in the moment when a played songs is going to end and the next one is about to be loaded MM-freezes and playback stopps up to 10-20 seconds depending on the auto-playlist to be loaded! This is of course worst case which can happen in DJ-ing situation...

For me it would be most important that playback is not stopped under no circumstances. I have no problem of waiting for the playlist several seconds, but playback must continue..

the library I use in DJ situation is about 35000 songs, there is no problem opening a very simple/short auto-playlist, but if it happens to be some hundred titles playback will be stopped for x-seconds..

This is independent of hardware/software. Had that problem under Win XP on Workstation and 2 Laptops, and same now under Win 7 no matter if powerfull workstation or brand new Laptop.

I am using original out_MMDS.ddl

Ah - and sth. else what I experienced related with this problem:
If you try to pause playback in the very last seconds of a song - it's not working. E.g. you want to stop the playback after a song, so you press pause during last 1-2 seconds of the song it is very likely that it won't stop and continue to play with the next song in the playlist.

So both things are related to a not very precize and stable working playback.
Please try to fix this in upcoming versions!

Bernhard

[Lowlander]

Try switching output plugin under Tools > Options > Output Plug-ins. Also make sure you have the correct Audio Device enabled in any output plugin in use. And when using the WaveOut plugin you can increase the buffer. Additionally giving MediaMonkey a higher priority might help (or maybe faster hardware with such a large collection).


I'm pretty sure a debug log might give some more insights into the problem: http://mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69 and hardware specs might help as well.

[beg]

it should not be an hardware issue since it's up to date hardware. notebook is intel core i7, 4 GB ram and music is stored on the internal 500 GB HD. Workstation is 2 x Xeon 3,6GHz, 4GB ram. windows updated, MM ver 1297

My notebook is setup exclusively for MM and DJ-ing only! No other programs or services.
My workstation is also completly setup fresh with win7.

The wav-output seems to react better on late pauseing.

I tried to reproduce the problem with the playlist loading and what I notice is this:
If I open an auto-playlist very shortly before the played title ends, the next songs will start exactly at the same time when the auto-playlist shows up its found titles. So the duration between songs is determind by the time the auto-playlist takes in order to come up with its search-results. Now I noticed already that the time an auto-playlist takes to come up with its list varies a lot. Sometimes it takes really long, sometimes it's very fast. The big problem occurs only then, when you select an auto-playlist in the moment the player is loading the next song AND for whatever reasons the auto-playlist takes a long break for coming up with the results.

Recently it stopped playback while DJ-ing for about 10 seconds because of that. People were coming and asking what's going on and I looked at the not reacting - liked freezed MM when 10 seconds later the autoplaylist listed the titels and playback continued. I can not reproduce this effect which happended twice so far on purpose in this lenght..
But I can reproduce the break between the songs with playlists which takes 3-4 seconds for loading - then there is a break between the songs for also 3-4 seconds.

I hesitate installing the debug-version sine I use MM productive and happy with a working system. In addition there is no crash, or hang-up - it is just kind of unstable in the moment while finishing one and loading the next song especially in combination with a triggered auto-playlist.

thx for investigating,
Bernhard

[Lowlander]

AutoPlaylists are computationally heavy if they're complex as an SQL query needs to be run against the database. To speed things up you can use File > Maintain Library with complete optimization enabled once in a while and also make sure you defragment the database file itself once in a while.

Also the following script can help cleanup what Maintain Library doesn't: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... up#p183539


The debug version is the same as the regular version, but adds logging of all activities in MediaMonkey, thus no crash is needed to be useful. In this case it could give some insight as to why loading an AutoPlaylist takes so long and possibly provide clues to optimization of this feature.

[beg]

I maintain library via complete database cleanup 1-2 a month and after every major changes.

Actually the playlist where this happend last time is not really difficult:
Titles containing "XXX"

Since I have to move the library a lot in order to synchronize between workstation and laptop it should not be to defragmented in the first place?!

I'll try the debug version..

thx so far

[Lowlander]

I'm not sure if Windows maintains things together on the hard drive when moving files.

[beg]

me neither, but if you copy a large file to a new harddrive - don't you think it will try to write it together and not spreading it around the drive.. But who knows.. In this case both computers are newly setup and should not be defragmented in the first place..

Bernhard

[beg]

MM support asked me to record a problem, which I did for my changing titles as well as for the playback instable output.
I managed in the first try a ~20 seconds hang-up of MM playback to be catched on video!

http://www.screentoaster.com/watch/stUE ... onstration

it was intended to record also the audio output, which did not work sadly. But you will SEE the stopped playback output due to the missing EQ-levels and MM title saying - "Keine Rückmeldung" = freezing for about 20 seconds! until autplaylist comes up with the tracks and playback continues.

autoplaylist is searching for "cumparsita" in the titles tag - so not really a sophisticated query..

This is my second BIG BIG problem I have with MM especially given a live DJ session as you can imagine!

Hopefully you manage to get playback more stable. I have no problem with waiting for the autoplaylist, but playback has to continue! This is a No-Go!

[beg]

I think I found the problem by chance:

My music library has ~160.000 titles I am working with on my workstation. For DJ-ing I use ~36.000 titles being organized in it's own folder which I transfer to the laptop for Dj-ing. So on the laptop I copy only these 36.000 songs and the original library. Then I update the path information of these tracks in the library. (via locate moved/missing tracks) So in the mm-library I have the 36.000 tracks as music and updated path-info in the library and the remaining 125.000 tracks grayed out. In this setup it can take a long time for autoplaylists to show up like described above..

Today I deleted the remaining 125.000 tracks I do not need for DJ-ing in the library and: Auto-playlists are working lightning-fast and without disturbing the playback of music... The downside is that this needs a considerable extra time to be done and I won't be able to retransfer it back to the workstation in case of major changes to the library without having to rescan everything again. But at least one workaround solution to this stability problem for now.

So for the dev-team:
Is it possible that lot's of grayed-out track entries are reducing the speed of autplaylists considerably?! (which they should not do actually) On my workstation with 160.000 updated track paths I do not experience breaks of 10-20 seconds for an autoplaylist to come up with the results.

Bernhard

[Lowlander]

Try:
1) Check Library > Files to Edit > Dead Links node and see if the tracks are there that aren't send to the laptop (don't think it will show them)

2) Create an Auto-Playlist with Criteria Status = is not accessible. After you transfer the files and use Locate Moved/Missing you open the playlist, select all files and remove them.

3) Without removing unaccessible files you can try adding the criteria Status = is accessible to the Auto-Playlists and see if it speeds them up. (I doubt this works as it would require the checking of the tracks accessibility).

Is there a reason you transfer the database? Tags should transfer without database.

[beg]

Actually I know what files and library entries are accessable/updated or inaccessable/dead as I described. Tracks within my DJ-ing folder are updated, the rest is inaccessable. I did not think that this should be a problem since I don't use them. But obviously it has a serious effect on the performance of the autoplaylists.

how and why synching like that - this is another subject - not for this thread actually..

I tried all suggested methods for my situation (none really did the job) and this one is by far the best working for me:

I need my music, MM and the library on two different computers with possibility to work here or there and update the other music files and library. As I described already I mainly work with my music on my workstation having the whole collection of +160k tracks. Working means I work on tagging information and create lot's of small playlists. For Dj-ing I need the up-to-date music files (tags) AND library (with latest playlists) on my laptop. I tried to work with synchronization, playlist exporting - nothing really did the job.

What I do is to synch my DJ-ing folder between Workstation and Laptop with an external synch-programm (tracks with new tag infos and/or moved/deleted/added tracks are copied) and copying the MM library from workstation to the laptop. Since I use the same folder structure it would work right away if there is not this MM-speciality that it recognize it's on a different HD. So I run once the locate moved/missed tracks giving it the location of my DJ-ing folder, which takes about 10 minutes and everything is done. I have my up to date music and library on my laptop in the same way I have it on my workstation.

If somebody knows a better solution, let me know.. But as far as I know and have read here in the forum I tried everything suggested and nothing worked like that..

regards,
Bernhard

[Lowlander]

You're right when also wanting to transfer the playlists your method works well and as you know what to delete after sync it's the fastest solution.

As alternative you could see if this makes things easier: http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... =2&t=42085

[beg]

it's better like that, but the basic problem remains. Today during DJ-ing I happened to open a autoplaylist again right at the end of a song and got a 3-4 seconds break. That was not a catastrophy since we have a second break between songs anyway, but it's enough for people wondering why it takes so long for the next song to be played..

So the basic problem that processing an autoplaylist in the moment between tracks will prevent the next track from being loaded still remains..

Bernhard

[Lowlander]

By open do you mean select it in the Playlist node or actually loading it into Now Playing?

If you know what AutoPlaylists you're gonna use during a set you might want to create static playlists of them as workaround for now.

[beg]

Hi lowlander,

you can watch the video demonstrating it..

it happens while selecting the autoplaylist node.

No - I have to use the autoplaylists in order to find certain tracks..

regards,
Bernhard