OLDEST SCAM: Nothing new

escool · Post by **escool** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 12:22 am

Please don't remove it from your site in support of freedom of speech.
I remember writing to the forum some time ago congratulating you on your product esp. the freeware nature. Though I appreciate the fact sincerely that money is needed in this world..you are hardly the first philanthropist...don't think you would understand that sentiment as people like me offer to help with the programming to people like yourself..a good example is eDonkey vs. eMule

anyhow no more preaching..more realistically ethically speaking you should not have features like cache in the freeware version first and then remove it later from your basic function. OLDEST SCAM: FIRST ENTICE PEOPLE THEN CHARGE THEM..nothing new buddy. It stinks to high heavens..I understand adding advanced queries for gold version but removing features ..you probably pride yourself in being Microsoft..good products but no vision.

Lets see if you atleast keep the post around ..or you can charge for every letter typed here

I know you didn't ask my opinion and i had full freedom to do what i choose...so don't give me that as an excuse for backing out on what you had earlier provided as free..CHARGE FOR ADDITIONAL FEATURES IF TAKING FREE SOFTWARE TO SHAREWARE..best case scenario ..you understand that and make features like cache which existed earlier free again...worst case the only people reading this are 'jiri' and me

Post by **jiri** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 10:36 am

First of all, I haven't ever removed any posts from here and I will never do so, probably unless they have some kind of offensive language.

Your post contains some hate I don't understand. Songs-DB offers many features, which are in many cases quite unmatched and all of this for free, without any limitation in number of songs in the database or any other kind of crippling the software. Then there are some features in the Gold version, which even improve overall quality and make Songs-DB almost essential tool for real music lovers (it is feeling of many users, not just my wish). All this is for only $20, which you can compare to some other tools, like many single-purpose converters, grabbers, etc.

And that absence of cache in the free version - I understand you would like to have it also for free, but so others would like other things and there must be something left to the Gold version. Yes, it was free once, but now the model is fixed - unlimited basic functionality for free, some more advanced features for a very small fee (which actually could go somewhat higher). $20 is like buying a new CD to your collection - quite a good investment I think.

Jiri

escool · Post by **escool** » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:35 pm

No hate intended just pointing out what should be obvious.

Lets get one thing right distributing anything for free is good.
Let me point out what I do not appreciate in bold and please address that specifically:
- The model is not fixed..on the contrary its the oldest model ever. First get people used to free features then charge for it. Please do not address side issues. If this was your intention you should have put that up on the site in the first place not called it free everywhere. If that was not then ethically you should NOT remove CACHE as a free feature. Introduce new ones thats fine
- Economy wise US, Europe can afford $20 as a small amount. There are other countries on the internet and students for whom these amounts are not that small. So you cannot justify the amount that way

Please address these specifically and atleast have the magnanamity to admit the fact that you just got greedy. Its true, we all do it. Face it. Otherwise you should not have removed features from the basic version. Introduced new ones thats fine.

Post by **jiri** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:25 pm

You are wrong in the first thing - it wasn't an intention to make free features and then ask money for them. I hoped that it will be possible to fund Songs-DB by other means, but it just wasn't (it is for a longer discussion). And this explains the rest - it was necessary to make a point where features are separated to the free and paid ones, even those which already existed.

You are right that $20 is a different amount for different people around the world, but the same holds for any other amount! However I'm open to any discounts to students and so on.

I hope I have explained everything and so I don't need to oppose the fact that you call me greedy. I'm just as greedy as anyone wanting to get some compensation for his/her work.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 8:02 pm

Let me tell you song-DB is awesome!. it is free as well and contains no spyware....I would even be tempted to pay for the program as it is...Sorry i am not an advance user (like you) but cool off man!

daved · Post by **daved** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 5:20 pm

As someone who has a vested interest in freebies (I've collected and used a lot over the years, and have run with SongsDB for free for over a year before finally splashing out on the registration), I must say I agree with Jiri.

The point here is that, unlike Microsoft, who are a large, commercial organisation with an agressive marketing department who are, not unnaturally, out to make a buck for themselvs (and you shouldn't lose sight of that), Jiri is a philanthopist at heart and feels the desire to help all of us with a freebie for as long as possible.

It's his kit and he can do what he likes with it. He can market, promote and present the free version in any way he likes, because it is free and he's doing us all a great favour. Comments about features being removed are certainly pertinent to a paid-for product but I really don't see that they have a place in relation to something provided gratis.

I could go on.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:23 am

Yeah, Jiri, don't listen to people who want everything for free and then still complain about it. Unfortunately there are people who think that they can demand things for free. And calling this a scam is ridiculous. A "scam" is a "fraudulent business scheme". You can hardly call giving out software for free a scam. There is no fraud happening.

This attitude destroys many free software projects which is why it's important that happy users of your software point out that you are doing an amazing job.

I'm still using version 1.2 because it just worked perfectly for me so far. It has features that are not found in other software and is still free which is brilliant. I decided to register for the gold version not because I need the features but the because I want to show my appreciation.

Continue the great work!

aCC

Post by **Peke** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:20 pm

Well, here is my pont of view. I have month pay of 50$ (<700$ a year) and I do not have money to pay for gold version but as my appreciation to SDB I suggested Jiri and Rusty that I'll help in programing and testing ie. CUESheet Implementation,... I would like that SDB is completly free but I also find that it is need to be paid off. in my programing Exp. I have started numerious projects which has took me time even once I lost girfriend becouse of my programing and time I have been with my computer and not with her. Let us think who will pay Jiri for hours of time he spend on making SDB as it is or as it is said in commercial world "The idea sells the product and not a product itself!". Hope that everyone understand me?

Seen from my point of view I can say that SDB is too expensive for me and I'll never pay 20$ for it. But as a programer I know how much he already paid for making this piece of software, and how much time he spend to write it, and that 20$ it never be enough for him. I know in my case when I get some money for all those hours I have spent looking in monitor and lines and lines of program code I feel great, so it keep me going. Here is an example. I'm making CUESheet Support from scrach that can be implemented in SDB for allmost a two months 5-6 hours a day that means I'm working on regular job for 8 hours than 5-6 hours on program just to repay Jiri for good work at no cost. Also I have few of my projects like Complete CUESheet Editor which I'm workin on for more than 1 year (also no repay),.....

The my question for all those people that want SDB to be completly free of charge is: Will they make that long term secrifice to make support for all demads requested(demanded) from him at no repay for that just more bugs and demands?

I'm sorry for bad english as I wrote this at 4Am after 12 hours of programing and no sleep, so if something is not clearly understandable I'll be glad to answer to any Questions regarding this and make the end of silly talk.

Note for Jiri and Rusty: Just be as you were till now and most of us will be more than happy to support you in your work.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:20 am

i am really new to this. i just got both the old sd version and the mediamonkey one.

i am not a programer and i dont know what a cache in this program would do.? i understand what it is but not how it would work here.?

i also do not need it for i have not missed it?

but what ever is missing from the old free version i feel for the person that got use to having it and then had it taken away.

I also think that removing a feature from the free version that was in use by many is not right.

you can not give something to people for free and then take it back and ask for money for it. ( not with out a lot of heated words and having people throw your other stuff away,)

i am out of work and just trying to keep my familys systems working so i have no money to buy things with. i just use all the computers of my familys to do things with. this program saved me a lot of time i would buy the gold version if i had money and it would burn cdroms with any burning program and not just nero. but as i have other free things to burn with that is not really an issue for me. the issue i needed was a good data base manager and this is it. right now it has save me hundreds of hours already by converting songs and keeping the tag info.

it is converting them right now on the other computer. has been for 12 hours and there are still 48 hours of songs to convert when this batch is done in another 7 hours.

so i thank you for your program please do not muk it up with new unneeded features like other jukeboxes have.

peke i am also not sure what a cuesheet would do?

i am not able to program and admire those that can.

i would also say that your english is better when your tired then most other english kids when they are not tired.

Theyisus · Post by **Theyisus** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:53 am

The right to free speech is one thing. The right to free software is quite another. Thinking that you have any right over a program that is not yours to begin with and free to boot, is NUTS. The moment you discovered how excellent the program really was, and saw how much it did for you... why didn't you BUY it and spread the word to support the author, instead of berating him? That's what some of us did instantly! Obviously, some just love to preach... but, is your emphasis on free or on speech? Either way... you lose!

(Oh! Ancient post... glad I got it off my chest anyway) Love your program!

Willem · Post by **Willem** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:18 pm

First of all, I think you can't say that a free feature is removed. If it was free in the version you got, it remains free. It can be that it is no longer free in the new version, but no one obliges you to upgrade to the new version.

I have tried Songs-DB only for a few days before upgrading to the Gold version, because I was interested in the cache and the scripting facilities. Since then I've upgraded a few times to newer versions, now MediaMonkey, all at no extra charge.

I think the price is very fair, certainly if you can afford a multimedia PC connected to the internet and to spend so much time on your PC just for fun. Go out working for an hour and you will probably earn enough to pay for it.

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 2:30 am

certainly if you can afford a multimedia PC connected to the internet and to spend so much time on your PC just for fun. Go out working for an hour and you will probably earn enough to pay for it.

since i am the only one that said they are out of work i take that part of your post to mean me.?

and who said i had bought this pc? or the other 8 i have, to take care of and keep running. all of which are different makes and models and years and different windows os's, and each person wants all the new stuff to work on them and for them to talk to each other but don't know how to keep them working so they asked me to do it? as a side benifit i get to use them.

i think doing this IT for my family is a job just not one that brings in any money, it is though one that keeps me home not like the 10 years i drove semi tractors for other companys and my own. i think i deserver this rest at home.

and as for the other part of your post asking that we do something to benifit the programmer, you have no idea what i did for them which is meant to be known only by me and the other person involved.