MediaMonkey forum

Attached are my test notes for MM re. podcasting. Included are a wishlist and a mini-howto for podcasts with MM. Comments and corrections more than welcome.

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Summary:
Tested MediaMonkey 3.0.2.1134 Standard(Unregistered) on Windows XP SP2 as potential replacement for iTunes 7.6.1.9 Podcast Management functions.

Conclusion:
MediaMonkey not yet ready to replace iTunes.

Wishlist:
Some of these items have already been reported, but, for sake of completeness I have included all items that influenced my conclusion. Items are ordered by importance.

1. Parallel downloads with download limit. iTunes limit of 3 is reasonable. This will also need a "Podcast Subsrciptions\Downloads" tree node to replace the single download status info in the status bar.
2. New meta-tag for subscription title, e.g. <podcast>
3. Bulk import of subscriptions from local opml file and/or support for dynamic opml directories.
4. Show all unplayed episodes of all podcasts at "Podcast Subscriptions" tree node.
5. Auto-deletion of emptied podcast directories.
6. Allow deletion of un-downloaded episodes from subscription(podcast) episode list.
7. Support Chapters in enhanced AAC tracks.
8. Better podcast specific documentation

Details:
I have recapped my test notes to make it look like I knew what I was doing when I started. Real world involved a lot of googling, search in the forums and RTFM in the MediaMonkey help files. Relevant forum links can be found at:

http://del.icio.us/owyn/mediamonkey+podcast

Getting started:
Download and install latest MediaMonkey
http://www.mediamonkey.com/download.htm

Export opml subscription list from iTunes
http://www.audioactivism.org/2006/02/02 ... om-itunes/

Move opml info to network and record url for file. MM does not support import from local file. In my case I decided to import the opml info to PodNova and use it's dynamic opml export facility.
http://www.podnova.com/

Create a new directory for podcast tracks. Not strictly needed, but, I like to keep data separate from software and have a separate data partition. e.g. "J:\Podcasts". This directory is to be the equivalent of the "...\iTunes\Podcasts" folder. The iTunes\Podcasts folder contains a folder for each subscription with at least one downloaded episode. The podcast folder name is the podcast name(title). The feed episode file name is used without change.

Run MM for first time. Set Podcast options.
In MM navigate to Tools->Options->Podcasts

For purposes of testing, and, to emulate my current iTune practices, I set the options to:

Check for new episodes: Every hour
Download Podcasts to: J:\Podcasts\<Artist> - <Album>\<Filename>
When new episodes are available:download the most recent 1
Delete episodes older than: Checked, 1 day
Only if they have been listened to: Checked
Only if rating is less than: Checked, 4 stars
Always retain the n most recent episodes: NOT-Checked.

Click OK to save the options.

Note:
1)There is no current meta-tag in in MM for Podcast title, I used "<Artist> - <Album>" as a substitute. This is not reliable as podcast episode tagging is variable in quality. See the MM Help for full description of available meta-tags.
2)iTunes auto-delete process can not be emulated completely in MM, but, these settings, plus the per podcast over-rides, are good enough for my purposes.

Import the opml directory details
Expand(+) the "Podcast Subscriptions tree node.
Right-click the now visible "Podcast Directories" tree node.
Click "Add directory" in the context menu.
Enter (or paste) the url of the external (i.e. network, not local, podcast directory)
Click OK to add the custom directory.

Subscribe to new podcasts
Expand and navigate the new directory tree node(s) to see the list of imported subscriptions.

Each podcast must be subscribed to individually. Marking a collection has no effect.

To subscribe, Right-click a podcast name and select subscribe from the context menu. In most cases just click OK on the podcast properties dialog to use the global podcast options.

Using the example options, the most recent podcast episode will be automatically downloaded. To select other episodes for download, mark the collection desired, then right-click and select download from the context menu.

The download manager seems to be fast and cpu efficient (probably better than iTunes) but it is single threaded. Any slow or munged download witll stall the queue.

Play episodes
Same as playing any other track in MM. I personally find it convenient to work from the Locations tree node and navigate to the podcasts data folder (e.g. J:\Podcasts).

Looks like I was wrong on iTunes track filenames. Checking some recent downloads it appears to be ...\<Track #> <Title> instead of ...\<Filename>.

However, when I tried to implement that in MM I get the string "-Track #-" instead of the value from the tag in the filename. Bug, or am I doing something wrong.

FYI, I tried the tags "<Track #>" and "<Track#>" but neither worked.

Owyn wrote:Looks like I was wrong on iTunes track filenames. Checking some recent downloads it appears to be ...\<Track #> <Title> instead of ...\<Filename>.

However, when I tried to implement that in MM I get the string "-Track #-" instead of the value from the tag in the filename. Bug, or am I doing something wrong.

FYI, I tried the tags "<Track #>" and "<Track#>" but neither worked.

It should be <Track#> if you're using the English version of MM.

nohitter151 wrote:It should be <Track#> if you're using the English version of MM.

Ok. I see what is happening now, but, still have a problem.

"-string-" in a filename shows a bad "<string>" tag in the path format. e.g. "-Track #-" shows that "<Track #>" is bad.

However, using <Track#> (the valid version with no embedded space) results in nothing in the string for that tag.

That said, noticed some nice things about the process.
- tags in the pattern are automatically case propered, e.g "track#" is converted to "Track#"
- the derived filename is automatically left trimmed, i.e leading spaces are eliminated.

A reliable, fast feed which shows this problem is:
http://feeds.feedburner.com/indiefeedperformancepoetry/

Owyn,

Thanks for the good suggestions. I'll try to answer each issue:

1. Parallel downloads with download limit. iTunes limit of 3 is reasonable. This will also need a "Podcast Subsrciptions\Downloads" tree node to replace the single download status info in the status bar.

Good idea. We'll set a default of 3.

2. New meta-tag for subscription title, e.g. <podcast>

I'm not sure I understand this issue

3. Bulk import of subscriptions from local opml file and/or support for dynamic opml directories.

Added to 3.0.3--see the beta forum.

4. Show all unplayed episodes of all podcasts at "Podcast Subscriptions" tree node.

Makes sense, though my preference would be to show all Downloaded Subscriptions (rather than unplayed ones), and have a default sort that showed unplayed episodes first.

5. Auto-deletion of emptied podcast directories.

We'll fix this.

6. Allow deletion of un-downloaded episodes from subscription(podcast) episode list.

I'm not sure about this--I don't think it makes much sense since this is based on a look up of what is available...

7. Support Chapters in enhanced AAC tracks.

Can you give me an example of such a podcast?

8. Better podcast specific documentation

Documentation is intentionally sparse to facilitate localization. That said, we can review the UI if there are any issues that aren't that obvious. My personal feeling is that the UI is pretty self explanatory except for:
a) The means of browsing existing directories and locating new podcasts and the level of integration between directories and MM
b) The fact that default settings don't cause podcasts to be deleted from portable devices
c) The fact that Podcast related commands aren't all available in one location and are spread among File > Edit, Podcast button, and context menus.
Is there anything else that comes to mind?

-Rusty

Re 2. I think that there is no need for <podcast> tag, because <album> tag contains subscription name although it is not too obvious.

Ludek wrote:Re 2. I think that there is no need for <podcast> tag, because <album> tag contains subscription name although it is not too obvious.

Well actually. There is. Many, but not all, podcasts set the ID3 album tag to the same value as the podcast name (<channel><title>).

e.g. The "IndieFeed: Blues Channel" podcast's album tags are "IndieFeed.com Community".
http://feeds.feedburner.com/indiefeedblues/

Which is why I used "<album> - <artist>" as an analog for <podcast>.

Rusty:
Thanks for the feedback. I have just installed 1147 so have not extensively tested it's features other than opml import.

My feedback

1. Parallel downloads with download limit. iTunes limit of 3 is reasonable. This will also need a "Podcast Subsrciptions\Downloads" tree node to replace the single download status info in the status bar.

Good idea. We'll set a default of 3.

Great. I have since noticed that the status bar can show multiple activities . A "...\Downloads" tree node will be closer to the way iTunes UI works but is not strictly necessary. I assume that a download queue length of greater than the concurrent active(parallel) download limit will still be supported. I frequently have 10+ new episodes showing up between hourly updates.

2. New meta-tag for subscription title, e.g. <podcast>

I'm not sure I understand this issue

The tag would support using the Subscription Title as an element in the podcast download folder name. See my response to Ludek for an example.

3. Bulk import of subscriptions from local opml file and/or support for dynamic opml directories.

Added to 3.0.3--see the beta forum.

Tested with 1147. Half there. I was able to create an "iTunes Subscribed Feeds" Podcast directory from the local opml file. But, I still have to individually subscribe to the imported feeds. That is fine for testing but not good enough for conversion. I have about 80 current podcast feeds.

I tested marking several feeds in the directory, but, only one feed from the collection (the one I happened to right-click on in the collection) actually subscribed.

Looking for a way to automatically import all, or a collection of feeds. Taking all defaults for each podcast would be fine, in fact, probably preferred for bulk import.

4. Show all unplayed episodes of all podcasts at "Podcast Subscriptions" tree node.

Makes sense, though my preference would be to show all Downloaded Subscriptions (rather than unplayed ones), and have a default sort that showed unplayed episodes first.

That is basically what I am doing now via Location-<My podcast download folder>-*All. Your preference is more consistent with your UI.

5. Auto-deletion of emptied podcast directories.

We'll fix this.

Thanks

6. Allow deletion of un-downloaded episodes from subscription(podcast) episode list.

I'm not sure about this--I don't think it makes much sense since this is based on a look up of what is available...

Hmmm. This might require some heavy lifting in your code. Would require maintaining history for the feed. I do use it frequently in iTunes but could live without it.

7. Support Chapters in enhanced AAC tracks.

Can you give me an example of such a podcast?

Coverville Enhanced AAC feed
http://feeds.feedburner.com/CovervilleAAC

8. Better podcast specific documentation

Documentation is intentionally sparse to facilitate localization. That said, we can review the UI if there are any issues that aren't that obvious. My personal feeling is that the UI is pretty self explanatory except for:
a) The means of browsing existing directories and locating new podcasts and the level of integration between directories and MM
b) The fact that default settings don't cause podcasts to be deleted from portable devices
c) The fact that Podcast related commands aren't all available in one location and are spread among File > Edit, Podcast button, and context menus.
Is there anything else that comes to mind?

Hmmm. I had not considered the impact of localization on your documentation. My feeling is that two items are needed.
a)More cross-links to related topics in your, intentionally sparse, primary help topics.
b)Focused quick-start guides outside of your F1 Help. Best solutions I have seen to date in other products usually involved uni-lingual english user supported Wikis.

As I review item 2 at:
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... 286#139286




Re. Item 2, I'm still confused.

MM assigns tags to podcasts as follows:

Title = podcast title;
Artist = podcast author (or podcast name if podcast author is empty);
Album = podcast name;
Comment = podcast summary (or podcast description if episode summary doesn't exist);
Genre = 'Podcast';

In the case of http://feeds.feedburner.com/indiefeedblues/ , I see that, when I set a destination mask of <Artist> - <Title> the following results (as I would have expected):
Title=Lucky Peterson - Let The Chips Fall Where They May
Artist=IndieFeed.com Community
Album=IndieFeed: Blues Music
Genre=Podcast
Filename=IndieFeed.com Community-Lucky Peterson - Let The Chips Fall Where They May.mp3

What filename would you prefer to see? OR are you saying that you would like a way for the tags to show:
Artist=Lucky Peterson
Title=Let the Chips Fall Where They May

Please help me understand...

Re. Item 3 (Bulk import of OPML feeds):
I can see the utility of this in some cases, but I'm not convinced this this is a really valuable feature. Any other thoughts from other users? (my reluctance stems partially from the potentially major problems that this could cause such as accidental subscription to 500 podcasts in a directory, and then being forced to unsubscribe from them 1 by 1).

Re. Item 7, Enhanced AAC, we'll have to examine this in greater detail.

Re. Item 8, better help: I'll try to get something going on our wiki

1148 nicely "Populates Podcast Subscriptions Node". That clears item 4 for me.

However, there may be a new 1148 specific problem. Not sure. See
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27649

Rusty,
Missed your last response. I posted my last reply without refreshing first.

Re: Item 2
Two parts to the puzzle.

1)I was not aware, but, was starting to suspect, that MM was overriding the ID3 tags for podcast episodes.
2)There was a my bad in my testing. I was using a destination mask of:
"J:\Podcasts\<Artist> - <Album>\<Track#> <Title>"
and I thought I was using
"J:\Podcasts\<Album> - <Artist>\<Track#> <Title>"

after your explanation I have changed the mask to:
"J:\Podcasts\<Album>\<Title>"

I removed <Track#> from the mask as it was not working and I am not sure it adds anything to the iTunes model.

And so, both you and Ludek are correct. <podcast> is not required. Consider item 2 closed.

This is however, a good example of the sort of information that should be made visible in a Wiki.

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Re: Item 3
Bulk import is useful for users moving from another podcatching client. e.g. I used the opml bulk import in iTunes to quickly move all my subscriptions from Juice (which I used at one point).

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Re: Item 8
You could prime the Wiki by copying and updating the Online Help for MM2.5 (which I just found).

Found the Wiki

http://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Just started testing 1155 but my number 1 item, parallel podcast updates/downloads can be considered cleared.

I have 8 test feeds in MM and it just happens that the first feed I added is ALWAYS slow to update.

Just tested Update All Subscriptions, and, the other 7 feeds managed to complete their update process before the first feed completed it's update.

I have one minor uncertainty re. Ticket 3394. iTunes (and Juice and Miro and ...) has separate feed scan and episode download queues. MM seems to have single Update queue. I managed to have all 3 tasks "stall" with even the small sample set I was using. 3X might need to be raised to 4X, or possibly exposed as a Podcast Option with default to 3. But, that is fine tuning. The major problem seems to be resolved.

If media monkey is going to be a true replacement for iTunes podcasting it really needs to be able to download video files such as .m4v for syncing to portable devices, I know this has been discussed in another thread but as video podcasting is part of the podcasting abilities of iTunes I thought it would be good to include it here.

Would it be possible to put some sort of folder structure into the view pane for podcasts? Heavy podcast subscribers (like myself) would find it a lot easier to manage podcasts if there was some way we could group the podcasts (for example, I'd have a bunch of folders - 'news', 'educational', 'inactive', etc, that i'd group my podcasts into). Ideally, this would also allow the option to sync certain groups of podcasts, rather than having to sync podcasts individually or all at once.

Thanks.