MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

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Re: MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

by rusty » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:43 am

Hi Tony,

afaik, the agreements between developers and Google Play apply to the app and to the app listing on Google Play. I can't answer for certain since Google seems to be intentionally vague about interpretation of their policies, but it would indeed be surprising if Google took it upon themselves to police the websites of developers for policy violations.

btw, I was talking about the whole issue with another developer, and we came up with another possible reason for why Google seems to be intentionally vague: if there's ever a claim against them re. distribution of copyright material on their store, they'll want to be able to claim that the store is a 'safe harbor' under the DMCA. To use this defense, they'd have to show that users control the content that appears in the store and that they run the store at arms length. Maybe by being vague, they retain the ability to use this defense. DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer...just a dev trying to figure out why the smart folks at Google have implemented such an apparently brain dead process.

-Rusty

Re: MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

by Lowlander » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:36 am

Congratulations, what a relief that must be!

Re: MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

by rusty » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:09 am

fyi, we republished updated listings of MediaMonkey for Android, MediaMonkey for Android Beta, MediaMonkey for Android Pro, and MediaMonkey Ringtone Maker to Google Play last night, and I see that it's now live!

-Rusty

Re: MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

by Lowlander » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:56 am

That's great news.

Re: MediaMonkey for Android Removed from Google Play

by rusty » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:36 am

Some news on this today...

Good news. Google responded yesterday evening to the appeal of the suspension of the MediaMonkey Ringtone Maker, and confirmed that the suspension was due to the inclusion of Album Art (it was in the description and in the default widget). We're cleaning that up now.

Bad news. Google's branding team responded to the request for clarification re. whether 'android' in the package name is a violation of branding guidelines by referring us to the branding guidelines. i.e. it's still unclear.

Since the Play Store team didn't bring up the issue of 'android' being in the product name, and since it's still unclear whether it's a violation, and since changing the product names will void purchases for existing users, we plan on republishing MMA later today with new Album Art images using the existing product names.

Again, thank you all for your patience.

To any developers reading this thread, what I've learned from all this is:
1) Be aware that every update to your product or description can trigger a re-assessment regarding adherence to policy. Don't make changes unless you're ready for a review.
2) Don't assume that a policy warning that is triggered by a product/description update is related to the changes made in that update.
3) If you've received a warning/suspension, carefully review the contents of the Google Apps Policy Center and ask other developers about their experiences if aspects of the Guidelines are unclear.
4) Remember that just because other apps are shipping with policy violations doesn't mean that it's not a violation.
5) If you receive a warning, don't take it lightly. Consider unpublishing your app voluntarily until you're fairly sure that the reason for the violation has been rectified, or risk app suspension and/or account suspension.
6) Use the appeals process. On 2/3 occasions, it failed to yield meaningful results for me, but on the 3rd attempt it worked.
7) Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Set up alternative avenues for users to download/purchase your app (e.g. the Amazon App store).

To any Googlers reading this thread, please try to improve this process.
1) If your goal is really for '...a healthy investment in policy education for developers is a much better experience than being notified via a warning or app suspension', then please clarify your policies so that ambiguities that occur repeatedly are eliminated. e.g. Ventis is not the only developer that isn't clear as to whether 'android' in the package name is a violation or not. Just make it clear.

2) Make your warnings and suspension notices meaningful (or at least more granular), so that developers have a better idea of what to rectify. As an example, the IP warnings that Ventis received were so vague that we spent hours fixing insignificant problems and contesting irrelevant issues without actually solving the problem. This led to wasted effort on our part, but also wasted effort for Google (re-processing appeals, etc.).

3) Understand that in many cases, the violations are accidental and developers want to resolve them. Many of us are Android promoters and tech influencers. Treat us as partners rather than as problems.

Hopefully this story is over...

-Rusty

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by rusty » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:54 pm

Thanks for your support. And yes, it seems that we're just lost in the maze of Google's process.
From: https://support.google.com/googleplay/a ... 54558?rd=1 :
We feel that a healthy investment in policy education for developers is a much better experience than being notified via a warning or app suspension. Please reference our Policy Education document which outlines common policy compliance pitfalls developers may fall into. We're working to expand this effort with the goal of ensuring that any well-intentioned developer (and otherwise) never runs afoul of our policies.
I expect that google is trying to make this better for it's developer partners...but they're not yet there.

btw, We're still waiting for a response to our appeal for MediaMonkey Beta. Also, we've just filed an appeal re. the suspension of the MediaMonkey Ringtone Maker, and have asked Google's branding team whether it's ok for us to continue including 'android' within the package names (just in case that's the reason for the suspension). If we don't get favorable responses, then we'll have to:
- launch a new version of the ringtone maker
- launch new versions of all of the MMA products that don't contain 'android' within the package name

-Rusty

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by Razzmatazz » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:45 pm

If any legitimate trademark holder (e.g. Hasbro or Universal Pictures) perceived logo trademark infringement (e.g. Barrel of Monkeys & 12 Monkeys), then their lawyers would not just file a complaint with Google. Their lawyers would directly provide Ventis Media with a "cease & desist" warning-- and they probably would have done so long ago. Their lawyers would be far more concerned with MMW (than MMA) since MMW has far greater prominence and a larger installed base. It's not like Ventis is hard to find or contact directly.

This seems like a case of a robot flagging the app, and an understaffed review department unable to handle the thousands of robot-flagged app appeals. Unless you have big-boy influence and connections (like Netflix), you just get lost in the soup.

Good luck!

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by dtsig » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:08 am

Peke wrote:I do not know if this would help here is an pettition for non automated warnings

http://www.change.org/p/google-inc-prov ... uspensions
Did .. please let us know if there is anything else we can do to help.

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by Peke » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:22 pm

I do not know if this would help here is an pettition for non automated warnings

http://www.change.org/p/google-inc-prov ... uspensions

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by dtsig » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:19 pm

Peke, i followed your link and posted a note to Google for what it is worth.
If anyone knows of a better method of letting Google know what we think of their short sighted treatment of devs that they suck money out of .. please let me know.

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by dkstott » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:54 pm

Google + is filled with developers complaining about this very issue.

I noticed that the play store has removed Media Monkey Ringtone generator from my phone.

While MMA is not in the store, they haven't reached out and uninstalled it from users yet.

please let us know if there is an address that we can send complaints to in support of MMA & keep us up to date on your progress.

Dave

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by bubbleguuum » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:50 pm

Do these modification and you will be fine:

1. in the app screenshots (and promo graphics), remove all album art. I mean ALL. Don't replace it with images supposedly with a permissive license (Google doesn't care).
Yes it will not look nice, but you'll be safe.
2. in the app description, remove any potential mention to other brands, products and possibly trademarked names. Make the description as short as possible to avoid problems.

It's probable that you got this warning due to 1. Since a few months, Google is literally after any app that shows album art or movie covers (Unless you're Netflix or similar).
It doesn't matter if you have permission to use them or not. Google do not give a s..t (and treat devs as such).
It happened to many apps.

Once you've done that you can republished the app and you should be safe after the 7 day delay.

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by rusty » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:12 pm

Why wouldn't Google disclose who the source of the IP complaint is?
I'm not sure why Google doesn't describe to devs more details re. what they consider to be a violation. My guess is that:
  • a) this way the policy can remain as flexible as they need it to be (no way to pin anything down)
    b) they might not have enough personnel to support the growing # of Android developers / they don't consider this to be a high priority issue
    c) they consider this to be a legal issue and don't want Play Store support personnel to interface with developers re. legal issues
Regardless, according to their policy, they are being forthcoming in even giving an opaque 7-day warning--their policy seems to be that
Google is not required to send you a warning prior to suspension or termination.
Which is apparently what happened with the MediaMonkey Ringtone Maker; in December we'd reverted the changes that led to an IP warning, and that had apparently solved the problem. But then when I made additional changes to the description this past week (removing all mentions of Android to improve compliance with Branding policy) they removed the app without warning.

Re. Android in the package name--I've seen some claims that this is an issue for some devs, but it's unclear (and the fact that some apps are getting away with this doesn't necessarily mean that it's permitted). Google's branding policy states that "'Android' cannot be used in names of applications", which is unclear as to whether it applies to the app name as well as the package name. A quick phone call or email from someone on their team could easily clarify this, but for some reason, they don't want this to be clear :-(

Re. 'Monkey' in the name, that's a possible problem--which is why I included information in the MediaMonkey Beta appeal indicating when we first started using the trademark mediamonkey. If there was anyone using it before us, we wouldn't have gotten the domain.

-Rusty

Re: Why Isn't MediaMonkey for Android on the App Store?

by Lowlander » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:35 am

Why wouldn't Google disclose who the source of the IP complaint is? That way you'd know better what the problem is (Google IP violation, code violation or logo/imagery violation of a third party or even that the App as a whole has been claimed by a third party as their IP).

I don't understand that these App markets (Google and Apple too) throw developers under the bus like this. I understand that there are many bad Apps out there either stealing user data or in violation of some IP, but as these companies exist on the work of App developers they should be more forthcoming with details in trying to resolve issues.

The Android in the name being issue seems strange as Firefox also uses this and there seem to be plenty of other Apps with Android in the name: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=android&c=apps

There could be a problem with Monkey as there is an App called UPnP Monkey, there are also RemoteMonkey/MMRemote, but they're made to work with MediaMonkey.

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