[quote=Timo_Beil post_id=501678 time=1665304073 user_id=9792]
It just seems so. (I'm a little shocked at how inexperienced you think I am)
[/quote]No, never. I am trying to figure out where we made mistake :(
As user looks like I'm just using MM differently, different language, ... like I Only have 1 track from "Desmond Dekker" in my 200k library :)

Hi Timo-Bell

I think that 4.3 is a sub-set of the general fault affecting **GLOBAL** double quoted queries.

The [url=https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19436#c69714]entry in the Mantis bug list[/url] has been amended to better reflect the issues discussed in this thread.

[quote=Peke post_id=501668 time=1665271067 user_id=213]
Or I understand this incorrectly?
[/quote]
It just seems so. (I'm a little shocked at how inexperienced you think I am)
To show the differences, I have extended the table by the results from the contextual search.
In both cases, the node is Entire Library>All Tracks. OK means, all Desmond Dekker tracks are found (Not that the results make sense to me).

[color=#F2F2F2]________________[/color]Global[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________[/color]Contextual
[b]1. Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words[/b]
1.1 "Desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
1.2 "desmond" -> no results[color=#F2F2F2]_______________________________________[/color]no results
1.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]_______________________________________[/color]ok
[color=#FF0000]1.4[/color] "Desmond Dekk" -> no results[color=#F2F2F2]_________________________________[/color]ok

[b]2. Ignore diacritics /Search whole words only[/b]
2.1 "Desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
2.2 "desmond" -> no results[color=#F2F2F2]_______________________________________[/color]no results
2.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]_______________________________________[/color]ok
[color=#FF0000]2.4[/color] "Desmond Dekk" -> no results[color=#F2F2F2]_________________________________[/color]ok

[b]3. Respect diacritics / Match within words[/b]
3.1 "Desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
3.2 "desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
3.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]_______________________________________[/color]ok
3.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]_________________________________________[/color]ok

[b]4. Respect diacritics / Search whole words only[/b]
4.1 "Desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
4.2 "desmond" -> ok[color=#F2F2F2]______________________________________________[/color]ok
[b][color=#FF0000]4.3 "Desmond Dekker" -> Only with Desmond Dekker in path[/b][/color][color=#F2F2F2]______[/color]ok
[color=#FF0000]4.4[/color] "Desmond Dek" -> no results[color=#F2F2F2]__________________________________[/color]ok

As can be easily seen, the results differ in all n.4 (except n=3).

Most critical is the bug in 4.3, where the global search only searches in the path, as I have already shown in https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=501605#p501605.

I do not find fault with the options offered in "Search mode".
EDIT: Thanks for clarification in mantis.

Hi,
[quote=Timo_Beil post_id=501656 time=1665235047 user_id=9792]
!! PEKE !!...
[/quote]Yes, at your service ;) Kidding, for me it looks normal that contextual works different than Global, because it adds additional filter to current filtered view, where global is on Library level, that may or may not comply with current filtered view.
Or I understand this incorrectly?

EDIT: During these tests past few days I have found that only feature I am really missing is "Ignore diacritics / match within words", but as internally talked it is limitation in SQL (unless we want that DB is 4x larger due the all various indexes, that would make it slower than it is now. In the end I am satisfied with "Respect diacritics / match within words" where I only need to pat attention to search same phrase without and with diacritics (eg. "ć" and "c") to get all the results. Benefit to this approach is that I can also see what metadata needs correction.

[quote=Barry4679 post_id=501613 time=1665145457 user_id=28275]
You are using "global search" ... I don't know if that is its official name, but that is what I call it.
I am using "Contextual Search"
[...]
[b]But the question is[/b] why these identical queries got different results?
I suggest that the answer is that you have found a bug in the Global Search facility.
[/quote]

Yes, it looks like that. Contextual works differently than Global.
Let's hope that a developer looks again into this thread, that already has two links to Mantis.

!! PEKE !!... :wink:

Btw: The first time I saw the Contextual Search was in Lotus Notes' views years ago.
A surprising feature, that I missed in many other application.

[quote=Timo_Beil post_id=501605 time=1665133684 user_id=9792]
To show 4.3 (search only in path), I made a [url=http://sproetze.com/assets/Videos/Search_only_in_Path.mp4] little video[/url]
Two filenames contain - Desmond Dekker - . Only these files are found with " ".
[/quote]

I couldn't see the whole video because it was downloading very slowly, but I saw enough to see what accounts for the difference.

You are using "global search" ... I don't know if that is its official name, but that is what I call it.
I am using "Contextual Search" ... [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2pd8hcjf09qn8x/quoted%20marley.mp4?dl=0]see my video here[/url].

A "contextual search" is constrained to whatever collection you are currently viewing.
You type your criteria when the cursor is anywhere within the main panel.
It opens a hidden search control in the toolbar, as you can see in the short video.
In this case I was in the EntireLibrary node, so like you I was searching my whole collection, just using a different route.
I find it very useful, and is the only search mechanism that I use.

[b]But the question is[/b] why these identical queries got different results?
I suggest that the answer is that you have found a bug in the Global Search facility.
Unless it another of MM5's Alice In Wonderland hidden rules .... ?

BTW, if you didn't know about the Contextual Search facility it is [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/WebHelp:Search/5.0#Contextual_Search]because this[/url] how it is covered in the online help ... which would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

I use a brand new database, containing only the Desmond folder.
Only a few unimportant fields are excluded from search.
Yes, I'd closed and reopened the seach field every time.
To show 4.3 (search only in path), I made a [url=http://sproetze.com/assets/Videos/Search_only_in_Path.mp4] little video[/url]
Two filenames contain - Desmond Dekker - . Only these files are found with " ".
Removing "Path" from the searched fields, no results are shown.

[quote=Timo_Beil post_id=501577 time=1665069909 user_id=9792]
Now I'm completely confused.

I'd tested the behaviour with the 4 Search Options.
To avoid errors due to the localization, I have used the english version:

[b]1. Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words[/b]
1.1 "Desmond" -> ok
1.2 "desmond" -> no results
1.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
1.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

[b]2. Ignore diacritics /Search whole words only[/b]
2.1 "Desmond" -> ok
2.2 "desmond" -> no results
2.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
2.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

[snip]

We see that 1. and 2. are completely the same.
1.2 seems to be case sensitive, but it is not, as 1.3 shows.
3.2 and 4.2 don't show this effect.
Only 3. is logical.
4.3 very curious (remains even after db maintenance).
[/quote]

I have only tested the Ignore diacritic" options.
I agree you comments about 1.x and 2.x ... I think that they are illogical too, but I can partially explain them.

#1 is case [b]IN[/b]sensitive as I said earlier
The reason that 1.2 gives no results is nothing to do with case ... it is because that is a single "word", no embedded blanks.
The double quote search option only works with phrases ... something that is an really stupid unnecessary gotya IMO .. and that fact is not well explained in the tool tip, and is ignored completely in the "help" text .. hint: you can quickly get to the relevant help text by pressing the F1 key, while the cursor inside in the search control.

It is what you report for 1.4 which seems wrong to me. I think that search should have returned results.
Are you sure that yo typed the closing double quote?
Which tag is Desmond Dekker in? Check Tools|options|library|search ... make sure that you have not deselected the relevant tags in the "global search" list in the bottom half of that panel.

Your result for 2.4 also seems incorrect to me.
In the confusing Alice In Wonderland world of MM, the double quoting option seems to override the "search Whole Words" vs "Match Beginning" setting ... So I would have suspected both 1.4 and 2.4 would have found your tracks. .. I am on version 5.0.4.2667.


When you did your tests, did you close the search control (auto-opening) search box, before typing the new test?

[quote="Erwin Hanzl" post_id=501586 time=1665089687 user_id=90757]
Possibly two unnecessary questions, BUT:
1. When was the last time you did an "Add/Rescan files to the Library"?
2. Do you "continuously" monitor the folders?
[/quote]If you asked me then
1. clean rebuild library by re-scanning, answer is 2004
2. only some as once tracks gets in its permanent archive place it would be pain in the constanntly haveing monitoring folder with 150k+ of tracks that have not changed 18 years.

If question was not for me then, sorry :roll: :oops:

To make things more clear

Search bug is separated in https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19436
and
https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=19430 is left as is to add/review adding all search case options for both respect/ignore diacritics settings.

Sorry for confusion, if you find any otehr case I missed let us know.

Possibly two unnecessary questions, BUT:
1. When was the last time you did an "Add/Rescan files to the Library"?
2. Do you "continuously" monitor the folders?

Eventuell zwei unnötige Frage, ABER:
1. wann habt ihr zuletzt ein "Add/Rescan files to the Library" gemacht?
2. Überwacht ihr die Ordner "ständig"?

Hi,
Looks like problem is with quotes.
First limited search to Artist, Title, Album, Album Artist, Genre.

When I search [Riblja Čorba] then I get correct results:
[url=https://ibb.co/WfXhxJs][img]https://i.ibb.co/WfXhxJs/image.png[/img][/url]

But if I Search ["Riblja Čorba"] then I get no results even Artist is exact match:
[url=https://ibb.co/8cmdtV3][img]https://i.ibb.co/8cmdtV3/image.png[/img][/url]

Also tooltip help do not mention different behavior according to Search Options so user can be easily confused.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I can't replicate Timo behavior for 1, 2 For me in all 4 cases it shows results (eg. case insensitive), same I can't replicate 4.3.

[quote="Erwin Hanzl" post_id=501579 time=1665074966 user_id=90757]
Hello Timo,
And now type everything normally WITHOUT quotes. Then you get different results. (See yellow search box.)
[/quote]
Sure, that is not to be expected otherwise. But I would like to explain the behavior of the " " search in the German tooltips.

Supplement to 4.3:
MM searches only in the file name.
After changing it to:
"01 -[b] Desmond Dekker [/b]- For Once In My Life.mp3" the title appears in the results.

Hello Timo,

And now type everything normally WITHOUT quotes. Then you get different results. (See yellow search box.)
Und jetzt geben Sie alles nochmals OHNE Anführungszeichen ein. Dann kommen Sie teils wieder zu anderen Ergebnissen.
(Siehe gelbes Suchfeld.)

[url=https://ibb.co/xgYV2dJ][img]https://i.ibb.co/fN9mXL4/1000.jpg[/img][/url]

Now I'm completely confused.

I'd tested the behaviour with the 4 Search Options.
To avoid errors due to the localization, I have used the english version:

[b]1. Ignore diacritics / Match beginning of words[/b]
1.1 "Desmond" -> ok
1.2 "desmond" -> no results
1.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
1.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

[b]2. Ignore diacritics /Search whole words only[/b]
2.1 "Desmond" -> ok
2.2 "desmond" -> no results
2.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
2.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> no results

[b]3. Respect diacritics / Match within words[/b]
3.1 "Desmond" -> ok
3.2 "desmond" -> ok
3.3 "desmond Dekker" -> ok
3.4 "Desmond Dekk" -> ok

[b]4. Respect diacritics / Search whole words only[/b]
4.1 "Desmond" -> ok
4.2 "desmond" -> ok
4.3 "desmond Dekker" -> Only a .flac file (1 of 22 tracks)
4.4 "Desmond Dek" -> no results


We see that 1. and 2. are completely the same.
1.2 seems to be case sensitive, but it is not, as 1.3 shows.
3.2 and 4.2 don't show this effect.
Only 3. is logical.
4.3 very curious (remains even after db maintenance).

EDIT: it is not the file format.
In my Pink Floyd folder there are 243 well tagged files. "Pink Floyd" returns 77.