2813 is available. and most shuffle-related issues have been resolved. Let us know what you think. Thanks!

-Rusty

[quote=Peke post_id=512322 time=1691964304 user_id=213]
Hi,
For Start there will be number of changes in 2812 regarding shuffle, please test with that version. I can't wait to see how things will do.
[/quote]

Version doesn't appear available yet. Only 2811.

Hi,
I would more call it "Predictive Shuffle" where unlike before you can see how MM will shuffle rest of your listening experience and you can adjust if needed (eg. sometimes it will put together two tracks that you hate to listen together, ...), Auto DJ would work more reliably and so on.

I personally like when I turn shuffle I do not know which track will MM choose, but both have its benefits and tend to lean to new approach more and more.

Thanks Rob and Peke
So, the "Shuffle button" will now become a manual shuffle (or re-shuffle) button rather than an indicator that "shuffle is on" (as in previous versions). I agree with the approach :) as it does mean you can easily see what has played recently and what is coming up.

Regards
Fraser

Hi,
For Start there will be number of changes in 2812 regarding shuffle, please test with that version. I can't wait to see how things will do.

The idea is that whatever order you sort or shuffle your list is what it plays. You can sort or shuffle it manually as well, and you can start from whatever point in the list you want, what you see next is what will play next.

Many of us see this as a big improvement to the old system where you could not tell what was coming next, what had played already and forward back would work in most unpredictable ways.

The next big improvement we need is to be able to save our current list as a "Queue" where it will remember where we were at in each of say last 10 queues. That way we can play a different playlist in between, or play the results of a search, and return to where we left off in the previous list. :)

Hi folks
Recently installed V5.1.0.2811 which appears to have fixed the issue I had with playing to google (chromecast) devices :)

I am quite confused about the "shuffle" in this version though. When selecting a playlist using "Play Shuffled" --> "Play now" it appears the playlist is shuffled with play starting at the top and then works sequentially down from the top. If I then sort the list (for example) by artist it continues to play sequentially after the sort. This occurs even if I have the "Shuffle" toggle turned on. It is like it is now ignoring the shuffle toggle completely.

If I then turn the shuffle off and back on it appears to do a re-shuffle of the list then plays sequentially from that point. So I am guessing that the shuffle process has changed? BUT, it doesn't seem to make sense that the list is playing sequentially when the shuffle toggle is turned on (and its playing sequentially down the list). Hope that makes sense.

Regards
Fraser

Here's a summary of implementation bugs / design changes that we're working on:
https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=18988#c72554

-Rusty

We'll definitely update the documentation as we get closer to release. For now, it's safe to say that almost anything that doesn't perform as intuitively as you'd expect is a bug ;-)

-Rusty

Totally agree with this - would help what has been implemented and how a user might use them.

In the release notes for 5.1 so far, I find only the above little note to reflect a major change (improvement, I think). There is little info on how it is supposed to work, and how to use its hidden features.

No one knows if the issue of being able to revert to original sort order in the now playing list has been or will be addressed.

I think it would be beneficial if somebody would describe fully what has changed and how to make use of this feature, and what if anything will be addressed in terms of the reported issues.

I thought it was just me. Upgraded to v5.1 to fix an issue with UNC syncing, but now came up with this new "pre-shuffle". This is very similar to how other apps do their shuffling, but totally unexpected after over a decade of using it the way it was. This new method for MM is annoying.

Some people may like this new method, but at least provide an option to revert back to the original 5.0 method which I guess is more of "Randomize Playback" opposed to "Shuffling" as essentially mentioned in previous messages.

If I double-click on a song, I want it to play that song immediately and then continue randomly selected songs in the playlist afterwards.

Edit: Looking at https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=510069, I see there's a workaround. Not the most ideal, but if I change the option to Play Now (without clearing) and pre-shuffle (right-click "All Tracks" -> "Play Shuffled"), this is close to the previous method. Just requires a couple extra clicks.

Hi,
[quote=Rob_S post_id=510367 time=1685545955 user_id=112670]
OK, so I think many of the use cases you mention are highly unusual to say the least.
[/quote]I am curious, as I have not seen any hardware or Software device that behave like MM 5.1 now, this include, Sonos, Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sony, ... And as of software I tested 20+ apps and non permanently shuffles now playing when turning ON, but all revert to Added playback order when turned off. Do you have any app/hardware example that works like MM 5.1?

[quote=Rob_S post_id=510367 time=1685545955 user_id=112670]If you choose to leave a carefully curated list unsaved for long periods of time, I suppose that is up to you.[/quote]My example was maybe bit extreme, I can give you much simpler example that after you turn shuffle on in order to get things back you will loose numerous clicks in order to do that.

[quote=Rob_S post_id=510367 time=1685545955 user_id=112670]
I think the default should be as it is now in 5.1
[/quote] Here we agree 100%, I only disagree that shuffle execute permanent randomize on Now Playing because like 30+ years ago Shuffle is still temp feature and it should be reversible not permanent.
[quote=Rob_S post_id=510367 time=1685545955 user_id=112670]
When playing using this option, right click play now, previous track and next track could just be greyed out, as they never worked properly.[/quote]Exactly, that is why it needs to be correctly implemented as like you I think that current state of representing Shuffle is much better and I like it, but destructive nature to Now playing makes it unusable. If I wanted to Shuffle my Now playing i could do that 10+ years ago in MM3 with ⋮ -> Edit -> Randomize list and would get same thing as shuffle on in MM5.1, I do not need what I already had but I lost normal Shuffle I use for 30+ years.
Finally, YES current behavior is better as it fixes many many things that did not worked and if not Destructive it would make MM unique, but unfortunately at current state makes it unusable and removes many existing features from MM.

Have you even tried my sample spreadsheet that proves it does not need to be destructive while vastly improving MM behavior?

Even Dictionary words [url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shuffle]Shuffle[/url] and [url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/randomize]Ramdomize[/url]/[url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/random]Random[/url] have different meanings, so it is not same thing.

OK, so I think many of the use cases you mention are highly unusual to say the least.

Programs are usually designed around more "normal" users and ways of doing things, and an outlier would be totally ignored. Been there, had that done. If you choose to leave a carefully curated list unsaved for long periods of time, I suppose that is up to you.

Now however in this case of MM 5.1, since the programming exists for the mystery shuffle, why not leave it in as an option for those (few ?) who might find it appealing? When using this mode, the track list would remain as entered.

I think the default should be as it is now in 5.1, but I can see no reason not to make available again the old way of "playing mystery shuffle", as an option. When playing using this option, right click play now, previous track and next track could just be greyed out, as they never worked properly.

[quote=Rob_S post_id=510355 time=1685489371 user_id=112670]
So, dumb question maybe, if you are sitting at the opposite end of the room using your remote, how are you seeing what order it is displayed at?
[/quote]I always want to have them in order I added them and I know the order when I get back to PC, so seeing them Scrambled makes me mad as hell. Often procedure is Enable Shuffle -> Next Track -> Disable Shuffle.

[quote=Rob_S post_id=510355 time=1685489371 user_id=112670]
Are you telling us that you would create a carefully ordered list in now playing, and not save it for future use?
[/quote]Eventually yes, but it can take 3-5k tracks till I decide I am satisfied with list.

I just remembered another case I have 10 BBQ list saved and use https://mmremote.net/ to control MM in house 50 meters away. So again Enable Shuffle -> Next Track -> Disable Shuffle was normal till 5.1, now I need to scroll few k of tracks and ruin the surprise what will be played next.