sync to device still has a lot of problems [#16125]

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Barry4679
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sync to device still has a lot of problems [#16125]

Post by Barry4679 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:53 pm

A lot seems wrong ... there doesn't seem much point about being overly specify about any single point ... ask if you need more info.

At the moment it doesn't seem fit for use.

#1. Crash

Steps (as I remember them)>
  • Attach device for 1st time ... make some config changes in the Sync Profile tab ... apply changes
  • Create a new collection for testing Tools|Options|Library|Collects&Views etc
  • Navigate away from D&S>*MyPhone* and then back again (so I can see my new collection)
  • navigate toAutoSyc(->Device) tab
#2. Duplicated device profiles

A some point during testing, MM5 created a 2nd profile for my phone

I don't believe that I did anything to trigger this ... maybe it was the crash?

Is confusing with strange things happening, until you notice that there are two semi-identical profiles.

#3. MM becomes confused about what has been sync'd to the phone

Here I have done a scan and a sync. MM knows that I have sync'd something from my "New" custom index, but it doesn't remember what it was.

#4. MM doesn't do the housekeeping that it claims to

steps:
  • set on the "Delete other files ... un-selected option
  • press Sync Now button
  • sync completes ... no audit trail, no error indication
[UPDATE] ... I now see that it is asking to delete playlists only ... shouldn't have deleted the tracks and folders also, as per my setting

#5. MM db out of sync with phone

Additional to the above problem, the MM UI lists files that are not on my phone. ... why didn't the sync and scan clean this up?

#6. Annoying dbox appears too often.

This type of dbox appears far too often. ... Example:
  • phone not connected
  • using the Media Tree, click on (unconnected) phone in D&S
  • don't do anything
  • in the Media tree, click on Google Play Music in D&S node ===> the dbox shows
  • press Yes or No to the annoying dbox ... don't do anything in GPM
  • click the phone node again in D&S ===> dbox shows again,
#7. This is not a good default for Android phones IMO

This is defaulted on when doing a clean install of MM5 (ie. no import from MM4).

The default should be off for a good 1st impression of MM device sync IMO.

For Google users this results in pollution in the phone's stock Photos app index. ... creates a folder in this menu for every album mentioned in the tracks that you sync to the phone.

And it also issues a notification nag message for each album folder too.

#8. This description is still not good enough.

This description is more successful in telling me what it is not good for, than it is at explaining the aim of the facility. ... it is just confusing.

The other sub-tabs on this Sync Profile tab are way more helpful.

And also the option title is misleading ... it is on the top ... the title says Manage Settings ... so looks important ... but its not.

It doesn't "manage" ... it just exports|imports config settings.

This here is a better starting point for the panel's heading.

Ludek
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Ludek » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm

#1. Crash

Thx. Fixed in build 2212

#2. Duplicated device profiles

This shouldn't happen unless the Phone's Internal Storage/MediaMonkey/files/storageInfo.xml is deleted (as it keeps the profile key).
Let's suppose that you did not touch the storageInfo.xml ?
If not then I would need to see the storageInfo.xml and MM5.db so that I could see how the keys differs.

Note that this issue also might be caused by https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=14480 (details there)
Do you use Android 7's Device Maintenance feature ?


#3. MM becomes confused about what has been sync'd to the phone

I cannot replicate this, are there any exact steps to repro? What you have chosen exactly under the "New" collection previously? Or it it somehow influenced by selection under the "Music" collection?

#4. MM doesn't do the housekeeping that it claims to

You probably have the files still selected under another node? I guess that if you deselect all nodes on the [Auto-Sync(-->Device)] page and press SYNC NOW then MM will ask you to confirm the deletion of the already synced files and will delete them for you?
Note that the files must be synced using MM to the device, otherwise you will need to select 'All other files' instead of 'Unselected library files' in the deletion settings.


#5. MM db out of sync with phone

How exactly did you deleted the folder/files? Using which tool? Do you have MMA (MediaMonkey for Android) installed?
As MTP scanning is terribly slow (and unreliable) protocol MM5 uses MMA's database for scanning whenever it finds that MMA is installed (the MMA database is presented as phone's /MediaMonkey/files/mmstore.db).
i.e. It reads the content from the mmstore.db and MMA is doing the house-keeping (for the performance and reliability reasons).
So if you deleted the files outside of MM5/MMA then you will need to run MMA for the house-keeping.


#6. Annoying dbox appears too often.

This is a regression in 2211 already fixed as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 078#c55207

#7. This is not a good default for Android phones IMO

albumart.jpg is a good default for artwork as it is not shown in the gallery by default, but prior to build 2195 there was a regression that the default was just 'albumart' (and not albumart.jpg) which resulted in the issue that the images appeared in the galleries.
But this has been already fixed, details in https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 923#c54515
So maybe these are just left overs from the previous sync?

As for the music and video files, it is OK to sync them as media so that other media applications on the Android (and Android's media provider) knows them.
This way the music/video/playlists synced by MM5 can be seen by third party media players.
If you don't wish this then I guess that workaround for you is to upload '.nomedia' file into the directory where you sync your music.

#8. This description is still not good enough.

This issue has been solved as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15878
I suggested 'Import/export' and Rusty subsequently renamed it to 'Manage settings'
I am not a native English speaker (unlike Rusty), but I guess that word "manage" is fine here. It says that you can lookup, import, export or reset the settings, so you can manage the settings.
You can try to suggest a better wording (if you think that you have a better)?

Barry4679
Posts: 949
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:07 am
Location: Australia
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Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Barry4679 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:48 am

Thanks for detailed response.

I prepared for the test like this:
  • clean install of MM5 ... ie. delete old MM5 folder first, and then do not import anything from MM4
  • clean phone ... a new phone (Pixel 4) ... had 1 prior sync test from previous version of MM5
  • prepared phone by attaching to PC via USB cable, and deleting all music folders from the Phone's \Music folder using Windows Explorer
I wasn't expecting any involvement from MMA ... see below

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
Thx. Fixed in build 2212

#2. Duplicated device profiles

This shouldn't happen unless the Phone's Internal Storage/MediaMonkey/files/storageInfo.xml is deleted (as it keeps the profile key).
Let's suppose that you did not touch the storageInfo.xml ?
If not then I would need to see the storageInfo.xml and MM5.db so that I could see how the keys differs.

Note that this issue also might be caused by https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=14480 (details there)
Do you use Android 7's Device Maintenance feature ?
I only did what is described above. Pixel 4 runs Android 10.

I did have "Automatically unmount device after Auto_sync" checked.
And I did get the crash while syncing.

Maybe either of these two were involved.
The 2nd device got created silently, and it was down the bottom of the D&S list in the Media Tree, so I didn't notice immediately.
Maybe the interaction with this 2nd unexpected device was contributing to the strange things I was seiing?

I can't send you anything, because I deleted the profile once I noticed it.
And I don't think I will do any further testing until I have a version w/o the crash ... because otherwise I just get into corner case situations that you aren't going to fix or investigate anyway at this stage.

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
#5. MM db out of sync with phone

How exactly did you deleted the folder/files? Using which tool? Do you have MMA (MediaMonkey for Android) installed?
As MTP scanning is terribly slow (and unreliable) protocol MM5 uses MMA's database for scanning whenever it finds that MMA is installed (the MMA database is presented as phone's /MediaMonkey/files/mmstore.db).
i.e. It reads the content from the mmstore.db and MMA is doing the house-keeping (for the performance and reliability reasons).
So if you deleted the files outside of MM5/MMA then you will need to run MMA for the house-keeping.
Tool was Windows Explorer.

I knew I was testing MM5 sync to device ... I didn't know there was any interaction with MMA ... btw there was nothing in the UI to warn me of this

MMA is on my phone ... it is a new phone, but MMA was transfered across from the old phone.

I have not even opened MMA on the new phone ... I don't use MMA, because it does not handle my Use case. There is no way, in UPnP mode, to naviagate from a playlist track, to the album which contains it. This is possible in MMA from a local source, but not when using UPnP in MMA ... It is possible with Bubble UPnP, so I use that app, because I cannt queue whole albums using MMA ... I would like to use MMA, but ....

So much of my confusion may have been due to unexpected intearcation with a old, dormant, version of MMA. .. ?

How do I reset MMA back to base line? So that i don't get confused.

Should I delete MMA from my phone ... or is it required for MM5 sync to device? ... confused. MM5 can't sync to iPhones?

I guess that if I clear MMA storage and cache, I should be OK?

I would be OK if I sync to phone uusing MM5 (windows) ... have MMA on phone, but don't use it to play music (due to above lack of facility)
That way MM5 will populate and mainatin the MMA db (for your scanning) ... that works?

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
#7. This is not a good default for Android phones IMO

albumart.jpg is a good default for artwork as it is not shown in the gallery by default, but prior to build 2195 there was a regression that the default was just 'albumart' (and not albumart.jpg) which resulted in the issue that the images appeared in the galleries.
But this has been already fixed, details in https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view ... 923#c54515
So maybe these are just left overs from the previous sync?

As for the music and video files, it is OK to sync them as media so that other media applications on the Android (and Android's media provider) knows them.
This way the music/video/playlists synced by MM5 can be seen by third party media players.
If you don't wish this then I guess that workaround for you is to upload '.nomedia' file into the directory where you sync your music.
They were not left overs from a previous sync, unless you are talking about MMA on my old phone.

I didn't say that the pictures appeared in the Gallery. ... They may do, but I have no evidence for that. ... Gallery is large, and I don't know what date is assigned to the album art.

Have another look at the image i posted. The folder is inserted in the Device Folder index ... so many album folders are inserted, that it makes this Photos index useless. That index is required when trying to find photos by application ... eg Camera vs Downloaded vs Snapseed vs PhotoResizer vs ScreenShots etc ... all your pollution ruins this index.

I was also saying that there is a interrupting notification for each and every album folder location, from Google Drive backup (or something), asking whether I want to sync this new image folder to Google Drive.

This is a horrible 1st experience, of MM5 phone sync, for an Android customer. ... for these people a default of "Copy artwork to the tags" might be better?

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
This issue has been solved as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15878
I suggested 'Import/export' and Rusty subsequently renamed it to 'Manage settings'
I am not a native English speaker (unlike Rusty), but I guess that word "manage" is fine here. It says that you can lookup, import, export or reset the settings, so you can manage the settings.
You can try to suggest a better wording (if you think that you have a better)?
Yeah, I am a native English speaker, but unlike you & Rusty, i don't really understand what the feature is for :)

I don't think "Manage" is a helpful description.

It should be something like "Import|Save device profile"
It should be at the bottom of the list, because in most cases it not required.

The explanation should be focused on what it does, not what it doesn't do. ... Something more like what is on your website.
... "Import profiles for specialised devices, or export a backup copy of your device configuration." ... with a secondary line of text warning that it saves configuration items, but not the list of music sources, nor items, that are sync'd.

Ludek
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Ludek » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:25 am

#5. MM db out of sync with phone

The best experience is to leave MMA installed and if you delete/add files outside of MM then run MMA for the house-keeping (to update /MediaMonkey/files/mmstore.db).
Another option is to uninstall MMA and delete /MediaMonkey/files/mmstore.db , but this way MM5 scanning performance will be degraded much (based on number of folders and files to scan), because listing contents over MTP is terribly slow.


#7. This is not a good default for Android phones IMO
This is a horrible 1st experience, of MM5 phone sync, for an Android customer. ... for these people a default of "Copy artwork to the tags" might be better?
We don't see this horrible experience with the default Android's apps, so I guess the experience depends on the third software being used/installed on the Android.
I agree that users not wanting to use MMA at all for some reason (and use a third party software on the Android) may want to use another default.
"Copy artwork to the tags" works, but AFAIK the Android's media provider cannot read the original and full resolution of the images from the tags, so the images are of a poor quality then (or are not read from the tag at all for some formats).
This is resolved in MMA 2.0 that has its own tag reader, but MMA 2.0 is not public yet (unfortunately).
Until then the current default makes more sense.

#8. This description is still not good enough.

I have re-opened https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=15878

Barry4679
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Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Barry4679 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:26 am

Ludek wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:25 am
The best experience is to leave MMA installed and if you delete/add files outside of MM then run MMA for the house-keeping (to update /MediaMonkey/files/mmstore.db).
Thanks for info ... "run MMA for the house-keeping" ... what do mean by "run":
  • just open and shut MMA?
  • or do I need to run Sync Now from phone?
Ludek wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:25 am
We don't see this horrible experience with the default Android's apps, so I guess the experience depends on the third software being used/installed on the Android.
I am seeing what I describe. when running the stock Android Photos app ... and the Backup to Drive is also via a stock Android facility... open Android settings, and search for backup ... I have the "Back up to Google Drive" option toggled on.

I do have some third party app on my phone obviously, but I am fairly sure that they do not affect what I am seeing.

Have you looked in the Device Folders app in your phone's stock Photos application? ... You on Android 10?

I will retest this with the next release of MM5, when the crash is resolved.

Ludek wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:25 am
I agree that users not wanting to use MMA at all for some reason (and use a third party software on the Android) may want to use another default.
"Copy artwork to the tags" works, but AFAIK the Android's media provider cannot read the original and full resolution of the images from the tags, so the images are of a poor quality then (or are not read from the tag at all for some formats).
I didn't know there was a stock Android media provider ... what is its name?

FYI PowerAmp renders tag art in local files, put there via MM5 sync to device, in beautiful full resolution.

And is not an issue with BubbleUPnP, because it has access to my whole collection, including the Folder.jpg files, replicated onto my portable WiFi|USB drive.

What does affect me is all the annoying notification messages, and the pollution in the Device Folders index in Androids Photos app ... both caused by the default setting in MM5->device config, AFAICS.

Ludek wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:25 am
This is resolved in MMA 2.0 that has its own tag reader, but MMA 2.0 is not public yet (unfortunately).
Good ... MMA v2 also adds facility to navigate from a playlist track, to the whole album, so that whole album can be queued? ... that would be popular here. :)

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
As MTP scanning is terribly slow (and unreliable) protocol MM5 uses MMA's database for scanning whenever it finds that MMA is installed
"Terribly slow and unreliable" does not sound very tasty.

Don't you think that there should be some advice on the D&S>[device}>Summary panel, for Android devices, advising for that best experience MMA should be installed on the device ... otherwise the experience will be slow and problematic?

If you don't do this, people will get a poor 1st impression won't they?

Barry4679
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Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Barry4679 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:41 am

Things look a lot better now that you have explained the interaction with MMA. Thanks.

The UI should be updated so that people expect and understand this interaction, and the need to trigger a MMA sync, to prepare the android db for first-time use by MM5W

Ludek wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:48 pm
#2. Duplicated device profiles

This shouldn't happen unless the Phone's Internal Storage/MediaMonkey/files/storageInfo.xml is deleted (as it keeps the profile key).
Let's suppose that you did not touch the storageInfo.xml ?
If not then I would need to see the storageInfo.xml and MM5.db so that I could see how the keys differs.
It happened again in 2213.

Steps, as I remember them.
I sync'd to my phone using MM5.
Results were good.
I was confused because there were no icons for Music, Videos, AuditBooks etc

I stopped MM5
I restarted MM5, and did another sync ... still no icons ??
I had Automatically Unmount After AutoSync checked.
I unchecked the above option, and checked Scan As Soon as Device is connected.
I unplugged USB, and then reconnected phone
===> A duplicate device profile was created.
btw. these steps also triggered the missing icons to appear. ... what is happening with those?

I have PM'd you the files that you requested.

Ludek
Posts: 3195
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:00 am

Re: 2211 - sync to device still has a lot of problems

Post by Ludek » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:57 am

Debugged offline with Barry and fixed as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=16125 (details there)

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