UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

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Expand view Topic review: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by Barry4679 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:45 pm

mcow wrote:
Barry4679 wrote:I can't see an option called 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' in either MMW or MMA/
MMW. Options|Library|Media Sharing. Select server, Configure. Tab "UPnP/DLNA", first checkbox: [] Update play counter...

It's not stated there that updating the play counter also scrobbles, but the two operations are tied together at the server level.

It's not possible to update stats on the server for each track served and not scrobble on the server.
Thanks Mike.

There are various areas within MM configuration that are neither intuitive nor elegant, and that is an example IMO. It is buried fairly deep isn't it? , and as you say it makes no reference to Last.fm in neither its description nor its hover tool tip.

I have a LFM button (has the same icon as shown on your forum signature) on the LFM tool bar: "Enable, disable, or cache only Last.fm submissions"
The button is enabled bu Options|Library|last.fmService

I thought that this was the only actor with regard to scrobbling.

I guess that everybody uses MM differently.

I never use MMW to play music (I have a Sonos)
Also I have an external application which maintains the Date Last Played and play counts within the MM db.
All I want is that MMA optionally scrobbles plays via SimpleLFM etc, and that this extends to UPnP plays.
The latest version of MMA delivered this, so I am happy now.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by rusty » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:07 pm

Re. 'MMA Server' sorry about that--I did mean 'MMW Server'. mcow,thanks for clarifying.

-Rusty

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:08 am

Barry4679 wrote:I can't see an option called 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' in either MMW or MMA/
MMW. Options|Library|Media Sharing. Select server, Configure. Tab "UPnP/DLNA", first checkbox: [] Update play counter...

It's not stated there that updating the play counter also scrobbles, but the two operations are tied together at the server level.

It's not possible to update stats on the server for each track served and not scrobble on the server.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by Barry4679 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:18 pm

rusty wrote: Yes--what I meant is that if you use a scrobbler on your Android device, then you probably want to disable the option to 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' on the MMA server.
What do you mean by "MMA Server"?

Do you mean MMW?

I can't see an option called 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' in either MMW or MMA/
Lowlander wrote:That's terrible as that is a global thing for all clients. So either you disable scrobbling on device loosing local plays being scrobbled or disable play count on server loosing both play count tracking for all clients and scrobbling for all non scrobbling clients (most of them).
I think that I understand what you are saying.

Hopefully any fix being considered wouldn't be at the cost of losing the new found ability in MMA where it is now able to scrobble UPnP plays on its own account.

My use case for MMA with UPnP is:
* headphones at night in bed when my PC, and therefore MMW, is turned off
* the UPnP server in my NAS does not scrobble

Up to this point I have been unable to use MMA for this purpose, as it didn't scrobble plays from UPnP sources.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by Lowlander » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:38 am

rusty wrote:Yes--what I meant is that if you use a scrobbler on your Android device, then you probably want to disable the option to 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' on the MMA server.
That's terrible as that is a global thing for all clients. So either you disable scrobbling on device loosing local plays being scrobbled or disable play count on server loosing both play count tracking for all clients and scrobbling for all non scrobbling clients (most of them).

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by rusty » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:38 pm

"If you go with this approach" -- is that supposed to mean there's an option? It appears, in 385, that if you have scrobbling on at all, then you have scrobbling on for UPnP. Is that right?
Yes--what I meant is that if you use a scrobbler on your Android device, then you probably want to disable the option to 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' on the MMW server. [EDIT: this previously erroneously indicated 'MMA Server'].
That's terrible and should be reversed immediately, if true.
Please elaborate--I'm not sure why this is such a major issue. It seems to me that this is preferable to using the much-less-accurate server-based approach. Thanks!

-Rusty

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by Barry4679 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:22 pm

"If you go with this approach" -- is that supposed to mean there's an option? It appears, in 385, that if you have scrobbling on at all, then you have scrobbling on for UPnP. Is that right? I'm fine with that, just asking to be sure.[/quote]

I am on 385. It now scrobbles when playing from a UPnP source. eg. I am playing from a non-MM UPnP server, I am seeing scrobbles being collected by Android's Simple Last.fm scrobbler.

Most pleased about this, because up to this point I haven't been able to use MMA to play music. :D

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by Lowlander » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:40 pm

mcow wrote:that if you have scrobbling on at all, then you have scrobbling on for UPnP.
That's terrible and should be reversed immediately, if true.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:00 am

rusty wrote:As to whether MMA should scrobble play history for UPnP tracks--I think that it should (see: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=12517 ). That'll be fixed in the next build. If you go with the client-based scrobbling (rather than via the UPnP server) you'll avoid the errors inherent to the server-side approach. Just remember to disable 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' if you go with this approach.
"If you go with this approach" -- is that supposed to mean there's an option? It appears, in 385, that if you have scrobbling on at all, then you have scrobbling on for UPnP. Is that right? I'm fine with that, just asking to be sure.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:02 am

rusty wrote:
When all the tracks had completed, last.fm showed: A C B D E. It should have been A B C D E.
Shouldn't it have shown: A X B C D E ?
No, because MMA doesn't scrobble from UPnP. Yet.
rusty wrote:Regardless, it sounds as if the problem that you're describing is what is discussed at:
http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=12524
(the fact that MMA pre-caching of UPnP tracks results in incorrect play history/play stats in MMW).
Yes, that's it. Thanks for the url.
rusty wrote:As to whether MMA should scrobble play history for UPnP tracks--I think that it should (see: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=12517 ). That'll be fixed in the next build. If you go with the client-based scrobbling (rather than via the UPnP server) you'll avoid the errors inherent to the server-side approach. Just remember to disable 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' if you go with this approach.
I am very glad to hear this part, and am looking forward to it. It's been long desired.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by rusty » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:11 pm

When all the tracks had completed, last.fm showed: A C B D E. It should have been A B C D E.
Shouldn't it have shown: A X B C D E ?

Regardless, it sounds as if the problem that you're describing is what is discussed at:
http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=12524
(the fact that MMA pre-caching of UPnP tracks results in incorrect play history/play stats in MMW).

As to whether MMA should scrobble play history for UPnP tracks--I think that it should (see: http://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=12517 ). That'll be fixed in the next build. If you go with the client-based scrobbling (rather than via the UPnP server) you'll avoid the errors inherent to the server-side approach. Just remember to disable 'Update play counter for items played over UPnP/DLNA' if you go with this approach.

-Rusty

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:59 pm

I just tested this, again, with build 381.

From the MMW UPnP server, I cued up tracks A-E. While A was playing, I selected a track X from the NAS server with Play Next, so the playlist was:
A X B C D E

These songs played in order, so the problems reported in this thread did not occur. When all the tracks had played, MMA returned to the idle state correctly.

After X played, while B was playing, I looked at last.fm. It showed that I had played A and C.

When all the tracks had completed, last.fm showed: A C B D E. It should have been A B C D E.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:15 pm

rusty wrote:I just realized that I may have been misunderstanding you. When you're talking about the scrobble history, are you referring to the scrobble history from MMA (i.e. MMA is running the last.fm scrobbler) or from MMW (i.e. MMW is using the scrobbler addon)?
Scrobble history is what's been scrobbled. My understanding is that MMW is doing the scrobbling when it serves up the track to UPnP.

I'm also seeing problem with inaccurate scrobbles as performed by MMA from local storage, but that's not this problem.

rusty wrote:p.s. MMA build 374 does have a problem scrobbling tracks played over UPnP (using the Simple Last.fm scrobbler for android).
What? I thought MMA did not scrobble at all when playing from UPnP.

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by rusty » Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:15 pm

Hi mcow,

I just realized that I may have been misunderstanding you. When you're talking about the scrobble history, are you referring to the scrobble history from MMA (i.e. MMA is running the last.fm scrobbler) or from MMW (i.e. MMW is using the scrobbler addon)?

I originally thought the former, but now I'm wondering if you meant the latter (in which case the problem is due to caching and the fact that UPnP doesn't communicate playback status between client and server).

-Rusty

p.s. MMA build 374 does have a problem scrobbling tracks played over UPnP (using the Simple Last.fm scrobbler for android).

Re: UPnP playback: changes in NP list are mis-handled

by mcow » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:34 pm

OK: with MMA 1.1.0.0358, playing back from MMW 4.1.5.1719.

Ten tracks. During playback of an early track (A? or B?), I deleted track D. Transition from C to track E occurs with no problem. While E is playing, drag track H to between E and F. Transition from E to H to F is no problem. While F plays, drag it to the end of the list.

At the end of the track, the scrubber bar comes to a stop at 100% (0:00 remaining), and the Pause button keeps looking like a Pause. Clicked once, it changed to Play, but then returned to Pause. It seems that no further actions are available for a while (minutes, while I was typing the above), including clicking on the Notification. But after that time period elapsed, MM was responsive again.

EDIT: I'm not sure if that was the amount of time needed to play tracks G I J

MMW history shows A B C E H F, which is correct
Scrobble history shows A B C F E H F. I have no idea how that first 'F' got scrobbled, it seems completely out of order.

Log sent: 44BMIP2J8E.

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