1248 Incremental auto-sync corrupts ZEN [#5833]

[chrisjj]

> Can the OP, or one of the users having this problem please update us on the status of any progress, or bug fixes by the developers.

I the OP knows of no progress or relevant bug fixes.

[nynaevelan]

And it is a problem that still persists of both of my Zens.

[Greg G]

Thanks for your replies chrisjj & nynaevelan. That's disappointing news. Aside from my current Zen XFi, I plan on buying the new Zen XFi 2 and passing the old one on to my sister. The XFi 2 now plays FLAC files, which would have made MM a nice companion. I don't mind paying for software as long as it's maintained and works well with my hardware. What software are you using with your Zen players for syncing, etc.? Any other suggestions? I found stability issues with Creative's Centrale, and wasn't real happy with it's less than intuitive interface. I was also disappointed with their apparent lack of interest in fixing those issues and improving it. Hmmm, I was just about to say that there hadn't been an update since March, but thought I'd better check it out. Apparently they just released a (LONG overdue) new updated (1.16.02) version. Here's what is new:

Enables transfer of non-protected AAC files (.m4a files from iTunes® Plus) with the use of Creative Centrale on Windows 7. Improves Creative Centrale's startup stability. Ensures a hassle-free installation when you upgrade the software later on.

Glad to see that they addressed the stability issue, and I have definitely had problems with the upgrade feature, so that's nice as well. I would have liked to see additional UI improvements, but I'll give it a try over the next few days.

I guess I could keep using MM to play FLAC files and hope that they fix it's bugs, but I'd really like to find an all around solution now.

[Greg G]

In regard to Creative Centrale, I had a quick look, and there are new features not listed in the update info. One which makes sense given the new ability of XFi 2 to play FLAC files, is a full compliment of FLAC features, including playing, tags, and ripping. Nice!

As far as user interface, there is still virtually no right click capability for options, which is baffling.

[chrisjj]

> What software are you using with your Zen players for syncing, etc.?

I am using MM, but to work around this failre, erasing the ZEN completely before each sync. It takes about 40min to sync this 8Gb model.

Thanks for the news about the Creative software.

[nynaevelan]

I too am using MM to sync my Zens, although my procedure is a little different than Chris'. For my 8 gb Zen I wiped and re-sync everything on a weekly basis, for my 32 gb Zen I let it do incremental syncs once a week, I am willing to put up with it because it is large enough to handle the junk files MM insists on putting on it and I use it too often with videos and pics to want to keep wiping it off, I usually only wipe this one out once a month. And while I have not tried the Centrale software since it first came out, I have no intentions of going back to it, I would rather put up with MM's inconsistent syncs. But I will say this, after upgrading to Win7 my sync problems on my X-Fi have not been as bad, but they are still atrocious on my original Zen. But after the holidays I plan on looking into the X-Fi2 as my next backup device since my original Zen is getting old. I would really like to get this resolved but after trying several other programs I have not found one that works better than MM and that allows me to sync in the file structure which I prefer.

[moatmai]

I initially had the same problem with my Creative Zen player (32 GByte).

Short version: The problem disappeared ever since I started using a different USB port.

Long version: Recently I came across a seemingly unrelated sync problem with another MP3 player on my computer (a Zune 120 GByte). Eventually I got so fed up with the errors that I was ready to send the device back to the manufacturer for repairs. As a last resort, I plugged the device into a different USB port. Before, I was syncing through a powered USB 2.0 hub. Now I tried syncing it via my PC's front USB connector. Suddenly everything worked flawlessly. (According to Wikipedia, the Zune is a MTPZ device. MTPZ is a proprietary extension of the MTP protocol.)

I decided to give this procedure a try with my Creative Zen. I connected the Zen to my PC's front USB via the short cable supplied by Creative. Then I had MediaMonkey 3.2 autosync the player. And again. And again. Over the course of four weeks, there hasn't been a single sync failure (knock on wood). Playlists transfer flawlessly, album art arrives safely (this used to be a huge problem), albums remain complete, no duplicates. It just all works as it should.

Is it possible that the MTP protocol is rather sensitive to USB timing irregularities? Could one of the users affected by this problem please check whether switching to a short USB cable and plugging the Zen straight into the computer's internal USB hub will alleviate his (or her) problems?

[chrisjj]

Thanks for that info moatmai.

All the sync failures I got for the few months up to the point that I gave up on MediaMonkey were when using an internal front USB socket. Windows Media Player and JRiver Media Center succeed using this same socket.

However this was using a long cable and I shall try the short one as you request, and let you know the result.

[nynaevelan]

I too will give this a try but first I am going to have to figure out which cable came with the Zen.

[moatmai]

All the sync failures I got for the few months up to the point that I gave up on MediaMonkey were when using an internal front USB socket. Windows Media Player and JRiver Media Center succeed using this same socket. However this was using a long cable and I shall try the short one as you request, and let you know the result.

I'm not sure whether the cable actually is what makes the big difference, it might be the USB port itself. If you can't find your original Zen USB cable, you might want to try one of the USB connectors on the back of your computer (you might have to temporarily disconnect your scanner or printer if you have no ports free in the back).

From what I've read so far, the USB plugs connected straight to the mainboard are usually the best (on a desktop computer, you will find them near the LAN/ethernet plug). In the Zune forums, several people report that their syncs fail when they connect their player to the front USB port, but that it works with one of the rear ports. With other computers, it appears to be the other way around.

You might also want to try out a different cable. My point being: I still think it might be an USB issue, not issue with the Zen itself.

(By the way: I had successful and unsuccessful syncs with my Zen using the USB hub. It seems to be an intermittent problem.)

[chrisjj]

Thanks... but

> My point being: I still think it might be an USB issue,

that does not fit with my finding that, or WMP, JRMC and MM, MM is the only one to fail like this.

[moatmai]

Thanks... but
> My point being: I still think it might be an USB issue,
that does not fit with my finding that, or WMP, JRMC and MM, MM is the only one to fail like this.

What I meant is that it might be an issue related to the way MediaMonkey pushes data through the USB bus. A timing issue or somesuch thing.

After all, MM doesn't just push the files across the bus, it does considerable work during the transfer: It checks the album art, sometimes even transcodes files to compatible formats etc. Somewhere in that area there might be a timing problem which only shows up under certain adverse conditions on the USB bus (i.e. long cables, not-quite-up-to-spec USB hubs, bad plugs... you name it).

[chrisjj]

> What I meant is that it might be an issue related to the way MediaMonkey pushes data through the USB bus.

Very possibly.

> A timing issue or somesuch thing.

And/or a failure of MM to handle comms errors.

> After all, MM doesn't just push the files across the bus, it does considerable work during the transfer: It
> checks the album art, sometimes even transcodes files to compatible formats etc. Somewhere in that area there might be a timing problem

The failure here occurs with no album art and no transcoding.

[chrisjj]

Update: I no longer believe this issue is MM-specific.

I've been unable to avoid it using JR Media Jukebox 14. On the last test on a ZEN with ~1000 WMAs, I added about 35 MP3s. Result: on the ZEN display evey character 7 (in metadata and even system text e.g. Bookmarks index) changed to a space character.

Bizarre.

[moatmai]

I've been unable to avoid it using JR Media Jukebox 14. On the last test on a ZEN with ~1000 WMAs, I added about 35 MP3s. Result: on the ZEN display evey character 7 (in metadata and even system text e.g. Bookmarks index) changed to a space character.

Darn. Now it's happening on my wife's Zen 32 GByte as well.

And she uses the short cable supplied with the Zen.

Whereas my syncs (MM Gold 3.2.3) continue to be fine.