is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby nohitter151 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:05 pm

Onweerwolf wrote:Simple: because there are no updates on the main website. You can't expect the average user to browse through this forum imo.

Why should there be an announcement about MM4 right now? It isn't released yet. There is always an announcement when a version is released.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Onweerwolf » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:35 pm

Well obviously because the devs are working on it and it has in fact past several major stages of development already.

Why else do you think people think that MM is becoming abandonware?

Or do you suggest that the fact that MM4 is close to being finished should be kept secret from those not brave enough to browse this forum?
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby nohitter151 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Onweerwolf wrote:Well obviously because the devs are working on it and it has in fact past several major stages of development already.

Why else do you think people think that MM is becoming abandonware?

Or do you suggest that the fact that MM4 is close to being finished should be kept secret from those not brave enough to browse this forum?

I would hardly call it a secret. You don't even have to register in order to view the forum or download the beta release.

And "brave enough"? ...really? I don't think one has to be "brave" in order to navigate a web site or forum.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Onweerwolf » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:04 pm

nohitter151 wrote:
Onweerwolf wrote:Well obviously because the devs are working on it and it has in fact past several major stages of development already.

Why else do you think people think that MM is becoming abandonware?

Or do you suggest that the fact that MM4 is close to being finished should be kept secret from those not brave enough to browse this forum?

I would hardly call it a secret. You don't even have to register in order to view the forum or download the beta release.

And "brave enough"? ...really? I don't think one has to be "brave" in order to navigate a web site or forum.


Exactly, so why would you not want a notification in the news section?
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby nohitter151 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:31 pm

Onweerwolf wrote:Exactly, so why would you not want a notification in the news section?

I just don't see the point. The announcement should be made when there is a solid release, as that announcement will concern anyone who uses MM.

If you're an advanced user looking for new features and bug fixes, chances are you're in the forum and aware of what's going on anyway.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby HaraldBluetooth1963 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:37 am

@ nohitter151

You are obviously not a sales person. You are a typical tech guy, just like me and tech guys aren't selling products very well and you aren't either....

Tech guys are used to visit forums for knowledge, but ordinary and new customers aren't. I agree with those, who want some news about development on the frontpage. An information about current state and a link for those interested and of course an appetizer about coming features for something to look forward to is essential behaviour for a company selling a product.

It's that simple. :wink:
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby theshowmecanuck » Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:32 pm

lowlander and nohitter are fanboys. They don't understand that the rest of the world doesn't share their unbridled passion about all things mediamonkey.

Media Monkey should not be trying to sell themselves to the fanboys. This is business. The fanboys have already spent their money. Mediamonkey needs to sell to those who haven't already paid. Those people are not fanboys or they would have already had MM years ago. They may be potential fanboys, but regardless, anyone who isn't already a fanboy will look at that website and think the company is no longer active and leave. They will go somewhere else that has an active looking company/website, and get the other company's software, and possibly become their fanboy. All MM needs to do for the existing fanboys is acknowledge them once in a while, and continue to make a good product.

The truth is that those who assumed MM is abandoned made reasonable assumptions. The average person looking for NEW software does not check forums or look in facebook or twitter. Only existing fanboys follow a company on facebook or twitter. A new customer does not know about a company yet, so why would they follow it on facebook or twitter?

Here is how a non-fanboy looks for an MP3 player and how they react to Mediamonkey's web site.
  • A potential new customer Googles for 'mp3 player' and see a company's web site listed.
  • They look at the company's web site, especially when the company is an online business. That web site is the equivalent of a brick and mortar store front. If the brick and mortar storefront looks abandoned people will not go in, even if someone is in there. The same holds true for the company web page of an online company.
  • If the website looks like nothing has on it has changed in years, or even a year, they assume it is abandoned (This is what Mediamonkey's web site looks like). There are many examples of companies where the web site is there, but no-one is home, and the main indication is that the site hasn't changed or posted any news.
  • Then they hit the back button and look at the next company in the Google search results.
  • They go to that company and see that their web site is actively updated.
  • They buy from that company, not from Mediamonkey (regardless of the differences in quality and functionality) because they made the reasonable assumption that Mediamonkey was abondoned.

It is nice that the developers are working hard on new development. But if their business model is to sell stuff from their web site, then they need to also work on the web site. Otherwise they will lose the money that potential buyers won't spend because they think the company is either not around any more, or on their last legs so close to the edge that they can't even make simple updates to the web site. Non-fanboys will simply walk away.

And for the record, I like Mediamonkey but it does have some idiosyncrasies I don't like. I checked the website to see if there was an update, and saw that it looked like last November (2010) was the last time the site changed. Considering the old look of the interface (looks like very little work has been done to it in years), I assumed that Mediamonkey was abandoned... that it died. The only reason I found this forum because when I searched for "Mediamonkey alternatives", free codecs dot com (a site the average user will almost never visit) listed a release candidate for MM4 . If I had missed that, I would not be here, and likely I would have found another product and downloaded it, uninstalled MM, and never given it another thought.

Don't always listen to the fanboys MM Devs. There are enough Yes Men out there. Listen to what customers who aren't fanboys say. That is where you might find criticisms you don't like, but those criticisms will help you attract new customers, not just keep the ones you have already made money from. That is, you need new money all the time. Keep the fanboys happy, as they are good crusaders for your cause, but they will love you regardless... that is the nature of the fanboy. Just make sure the new customers understand that you are still in business without making them work to do so. They won't work at it, they will go to the next place that looks 'open'.

Update your damned web site Medamonkey devs. Updates to twitter and facebook won't help you in the slightest to attract non-fanboys. I am a tech, but I will NEVER subscribe to your twitter (I hate twitter as do millions more), and I only look at friends and family's facebook (like millions of others).

P.S. One thing fanboys will also do is annoy the sh*t out of non-fanboys on the forums. Often they will denigrate those possible new adopters who have legitimate concerns. They will try to defend things that are not defensible because it is a holy war that blinds them. In just the short time today that I have looked at a couple forums, I have learned that lowlander and nohitter add nothing useful to the conversation, reacting only as fanboys. No rational conversation possible.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Mizery_Made » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:09 pm

It's all a matter of opinion and personal preference. That may be your process when searching for a new program (of any kind), but that may not apply to everyone or even a majority. In all honesty, whenever I read someone like yourself telling others "how something is done" or such, I can't help but read it as "This is how I do it, so I just assume it's how everyone else does. So, I'll say that... even if there's no statistics or proof to suggest that. But... it's my opinion, so..." That's not to say it can't be how a group of people go about it, but it's just one persons opinion until others say the same thing.

Me personally, when I'm looking for a different piece of software to use for various purposes... whether the company looks active or not is somewhat irrelevant, especially at first. If I pull up a products web-page, I don't first look at the news section to see if the last posting was a year ago or check the copyright date on the website. Instead, I'll look at the features, screenshots, etc. of the program. If it looks like something I would be interested in, or that could do what I need done... I'll give it a shot. It's only when I do go to use it, if I find a bug or a feature I think is missing, etc. that I'll then go to the website and try out Support or check the forum to see if there is active development or community. The only other time I would really factor that in is if the program requires purchase. If I use a 30-day trial and like the software, but after looking into the company (news section, forum, etc) it looks like it's stalled, abandoned, etc... I'll either live with it or move on. I still use a few abandoned pieces of software to this day (a few of which I found after the fact).

I know it's something that I question, but I would feel safe saying that there are others out there that approach the topic similarly. I won't say it's how everyone, or a majority, go about it... but yeah. I also realize that there are some that may look at MediaMonkey's website, get the impression it's "abandoned" (even though I don't really consider a year "abandoned"), and move onto the next product.

Sure, I guess the Dev team could have been putting up a couple "Previews" of MM4 to give people a taste of what is to come (for those that won't venture into the "Development world" so to speak) as well as give an impression that active development is on-going "in the store front"... but eh. I kind of think too, that the only information that should be relayed to "the casual user" is that which is official. If a feature is added, but then rolled back during the development process I think "beta testers" would understand there were reasons for this. The casual user sees this feature touted in a "development blog" or such... then it becomes "Hey, you said this was in, where is it?! You fail!"

I view it this way, products "under development" belong "in the lab" if you will, while the complete official products belong on the store shelves. So if MM's site is the equivalent to a store shelf (since it "sells the product"), MM shouldn't be trying to sell an unfinished product. Now maybe once it hit the RC stage or so, they could've put up some "Coming soon" signs on their windows... if we're going with the store front analogy.

I think I need to conclude my ramble here... otherwise I could go on all day long. :oops:
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Lowlander » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:12 pm

That's an uncalled for personal attack as we have been supporting more news on the front page. We merely directed people to other venues for news that do get updated. We never stated the frontpage shouldn't have more news, I actually strongly support that more news including new release, major bugs affecting many (Apple issues, Auto-Tag issues, etc.) and Beta, Release Candidate announcements) get posted on the front page. We have just been trying to counter the abandonware label and the statement that no news is available. That's just not factual, all that's lacking is the frontpage news ticker updates.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Lowlander » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:14 pm

I personally tend to look at what others say about a software when I'm unfamiliar with it. So it tends to be recommendations by knowledgeable communities or mentions in respectable media that bring me to a particular software.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Onweerwolf » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:45 pm

Lowlander wrote:we have been supporting more news on the front page.


Well, Nohitter is obviously against it:

nohitter151 wrote:
Onweerwolf wrote:Exactly, so why would you not want a notification in the news section?

I just don't see the point. The announcement should be made when there is a solid release, as that announcement will concern anyone who uses MM.


He seems to think that the news section should only be updated once a new version comes out and only then. No notification about it's development, no information about upcoming features, etc.

It's completely dazzling to me, as if he wants to have MM remain as small as it currently is.

I also think theshowmecanuck hits the nail on the head with his summary about how new customers might look for new software to use and the lack of updates makes mm lose potential customers.

It's been 5 months since this topic was created and nothing has been changed except for the iTunes incompatibility update.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Dreadlau » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:26 pm

Onweerwolf wrote:It's been 5 months since this topic was created and nothing has been changed except for the iTunes incompatibility update.


On the other hand, MM4 release is imminent.
So there is no use to fix this at the moment.

Give some time to rusty and his team.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Onweerwolf » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:29 am

Dreadlau wrote:
Onweerwolf wrote:It's been 5 months since this topic was created and nothing has been changed except for the iTunes incompatibility update.


On the other hand, MM4 release is imminent.
So there is no use to fix this at the moment.

Give some time to rusty and his team.


See, that's the problem. 5 months ago MM4 release was not imminent, yet approaching, imo that should have been announced. At least i think that's how you effectively sell this type of product and honestly there is no reason to not do it.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Lowlander » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:35 am

That is debatable, although I support announcing beta's, a good reason not to do this is that many non-technical people will end up downloading the beta inadvertently. This will lead to disappointed users as beta's tend to have bugs and probably more demand on support taking away from development.

For me the first Alpha, first Beta and all RC's should be announced, but I respect that choice not to.
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Re: is mediamonkey becoming abandoware?

Postby Dreadlau » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:20 pm

Lowlander wrote:For me the first Alpha, first Beta and all RC's should be announced

I agree.
That shouldn't take too much time to do. And should help communication-wise.
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