Play in track order

[Dile]

This seems a really simple thing to want to do, but seemingly it doesn't. All I want to do is select an album from the MM media server and play it in track order, rather than alphabetically.

Is there any way to do this? Maybe I am missing an option somewhere?

[Lowlander]

Make sure the Collection is sorted properly in MediaMonkey itself. Last time this was discussed it was stated that UPnP sorting uses the same sorting as user sets in MediaMonkey itself.

[Dile]

Thank you very much for your answer.

I allready have my collection properly sorted in MM itself, but when I want to play it in upnp devices the track order inside the albums is alphabetically not by track number.

I try differents sortings in MM, getting the same result in the devices (two different ones).

There is something else...using excatly same sorting options in MM, having exactly the same tag information and file name strucuture some albums shows tracks order alphebetically and others by track number (the expected order).

Any ideas?

[Lowlander]

It depends on what column(s) you sort on and what your tags have as values. For example sorting on Album will sort on Album > Album Artist > Disc# > Track#, which means that the Album Artist needs to be the same for all tracks on the Album and that Disc# needs to have correct values for this sort to actually sort correctly. You can manually sort on Album > Track#, but this will lead to improper sorting when more than one Album with the same name is in view.

[Dile]

Hi again lowlander. Thanks for your explanation.

Maybe Im not expressing my self clear (Sorry for my english level), I have everything sorted out as you say in MM but I still having the tracks order alphabetically in the device (Lacinema HD/Yamaha Rx-V771).

Maybe the problem is in the client/device?

[Lowlander]

I don't know, you may want to send a debug log (step 4b) to support: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=69

[okrumnow]

I'm experiencing the same problems. Selecting albums via a DLNA controller does not play them in the order they are sorted in MM. I cannot see any order, they seem random for me.

If i creat ea new playlist from the album and start to play that playlist, the album has correct order. But of course I cant do that from my controller but have to use MM directly.

Would be really nice, if MM streams the albums in track or sort order, but at least anything repeatable.

Olaf

[bweb12345]

Same problem here as well. Sorting in MM fine but on DNLA alpha.

[olix]

I have the same problem, especially with Playlists.

[khelsing]

Some of you obviously haven't fully understood the concept of MediaMonkey's method of sharing media (which is UPnP-AV/DLNA).

UPnP-AV is not a push service (= server pushes content to client) but a pull service (= client pulls content from server). Technically spoken a DLNA client is both a UPnP MediaRenderer and a UPnP ControlPoint therefore a DLNA server (technically: UPnP-AV Media Server) can't control the manner in which a client handles the information the server has sent. The sort order thus is defined by the client alone.

Some clients play the content of a list of songs exactly as it has been submitted to them by the server, others sort it alphabetically or by track number. Most clients also offer a shuffle mode which plays the tracks in random order regardless the sort order submitted by the server.

"Pushing" content to a client (technically: the UPnP MediaRenderer part of the device) is possible, but requires a separate (external) UPnP ControlPoint. Windows Media Player 12 for example has a built-in control point named "Play to" which "pushes" a playlist to a client. It looks as though a similar feature is planned for a future version of MediaMonkey. Overriding the external control point with the client's built-in UPnP ControlPoint, however, is always possible.

If you have a smartphone you can use an app like 2Player, UPnPlay, BubbleUPnP, AndroMote or media:connect to control the sort order.

[olix]

Some clients play the content of a list of songs exactly as it has been submitted to them by the server, others sort it alphabetically or by track number. Most clients also offer a shuffle mode which plays the tracks in random order regardless the sort order submitted by the server.

It's not a client problem!
If i use another UPnP-Server (Asset UPnP) my UPnP-Client (Samsung UE40D5700 TV) has no problem with the sorting order!

[khelsing]

It's not a client problem!
If i use another UPnP-Server (Asset UPnP) my UPnP-Client (Samsung UE40D5700 TV) has no problem with the sorting order!

It's always at least partly a client issue. As you will see in section 2.3.19 of this official document it's up to the client to define the sort criteria based on the sort capabilities the server has submitted before. As different clients use different (or no) sort criteria which different servers might interpret differently the results may vary from combination to combination.

Assuming that MediaMonkey is compliant to UPnP-AV standards the track order submitted to the client will therefore only match the sort order in MediaMonkey itself if the client has submitted no sort criteria at all or sort criteria identical to the actual sort order within Mediamonkey.

Many clients even allow the user to change the track order after they have received the list for example to switch to shuffle mode.

[bweb12345]

I don't agree in this case with the client side sort order. In my case the client (PS3) I've used PS3 media server, tvMobli, Nero Media Server, and Media Monkey. All have sorted correctly, Artist - Album - Track, except Media Monkey. Was hoping to use MM since it's great for music but looking to switch back to tvMobli or Nero for DLNA services. Bummer!!!

[khelsing]

I don't agree in this case with the client side sort order.

I guess I haven't made myself clear enough, so I'll give it another try.

First of all here's what's written in the TVersity FAQ (on a slightly different subject, but it's explaining the basics of sorting quite well):

"Some UPnP devices like the Roku Soundbridge and the Sony Vaio VGP-MR100U, request all the items under each folder. ... Devices that do that are typically doing it in order to sort the items in a certain way, however the UPnP standard ... suggests that devices need to ask the server to do this sort operation and provide a sorted result with the first few items of the folder only. Additional items should be retrieved by the device while the user scrolls down the folder. If your device does not behave according to the standard and requests all the items upfront, you need to avoid accessing the “All …” folder and use other folders such as genres, artists, albums, etc."

In my case the client (PS3) I've used PS3 media server, tvMobli, Nero Media Server, and Media Monkey. All have sorted correctly, Artist - Album - Track, except Media Monkey.

This indicates that the PS3 does not submit sort criteria. In that case a server will use its own sort criteria (some servers like certain versions of Twonky even ignore the client's request and always use their own criteria).

As Lowlander stated in one of his posts above MediaMonkey will submit the tracks to the client in the sort order of the corresponding node. To check if that works you can try the following:

1. Enable sharing in MediaMonkey and share the node "Music".
2. Open the node "Music" in list view ("Show Details").
3. Left-click the column header "Album Artist".
4. Hold down the CTRL key and left-click "Album", "Disk#" and "Track#" one after the other.
5. Point your PS3 to MediaMonkey and choose the node "Music".
6. The tracks should appear on your PS3 sorted by Album Artist, then Album, then Disc# and finally Track#; if they don't there might be a bug in MediaMonkey and you should submit a debug log (see Lowlander's post above).

For testing reasons you might also want to use a different sort order in MediaMonkey.

If you're using Windows 7 you can also point Windows Media Player to the MediaMonkey server. You will notice that WMP completely ignores MM's sort order and sorts the tracks according to its own settings; you can also change the order in WMP after the track list has been retrieved.

[jfcarrier]

I have the same problem. I use a least three different clients (PS3, Bubble UPnP and another one on the iPad I can't figure out now [I'm at work]). In some cases, the track order works fine and I can see them properly. However, with some files types (flac), it doesn't. I think this could be about the live conversion, will streaming, if the client cannot play the file type. Either way, this is quite annoying.